9 February 2018
Bertle refuse Ondra's personal 9a+ grade of Meoise
Pirmin Bertle put up Meoise in 2015 calling it 9b. Two weeks ago Adam Ondra made the first repeat giving it a personal 9a+ grade and part of the explanation was a no-hands rest he found. Pirmin has written a blog saying, "I clearly refuse a downgrading of Meiose."
Using it as a 9a+ reference for Switzerland would mean to block the way further up for almost every actual 9a climber of the country.
Pirmin arguments that Adam's suggestion must be considered a highly personal grade as without his length and knee-bar skill and his length it is more difficult for others.
8a has for several years said Adam is a role model as he is the top climber in the world that most frequent gives personal grades. Without climber like him and some few others, the grade inflation would have been much stronger.
Bertle seems to say that repeaters should give community, meaning that Ondra should take into account that he is super good at knee-bars and that he is relatively tall, i.e. give it 9b.
On the other hand, it would be very hard to ask all repeaters to not base their grade suggestion or confirmation on how difficult they personally thought it was. Instead, they should make a scientific estimation on how difficult they believe the whole climbing community would perceive it.
Grades are the number one criteria, for the media, deciding which ascents should be reported. At the same time, grades should not be so important for the climbers that instead should focus on the challenges. Although in theory, it could work as Pirmin suggests, in practice, this type of community grading might get the climbers confuse. When am I allowed to give a personal grade and when should it be community based? Possibly, Bertle sets the bar too high?
A third way of grading is to use the Time Comparison Grading, meaning that you could base the grade on how much time you have invested, using the best sequence and in good conditions etc.
The 8a stand here is that we are grateful towards all like Pirmin and Ondra that help us to present as accurate grades/news as possible at the same time, we fully understand that most want to stay away as long away as possible from suggesting or confirming grades.
15 comments
Sort by:
Date
Reply
Most commented
Jorge Diaz-Rullo reports on Instagram that he has made the first ascent of Cafe Colombia in Margalef. At 27, heโs already stacked four 9b+ sends and now heโs adโฆ
26 January 2026
Sean Bailey FAโs Duality of Man (9c)
Sean Bailey reports on Instagram that he has done the first ascent of Duality of Man (9c) in Dry Canyon. โ After four total years and three seasons of climbing,โฆ
23 March 2026
Jorge Diaz-Rullo proposes 9c for Cafรฉ Colombia
Jorge Diaz-Rullo elaborates on the reasons for him to suggest 9c for Cafรฉ Colombia on Instagram, which he took down last week after projecting it for 240 sessioโฆ
Related
28 November 2022
Heim nach Afrika 9a by Martina Demmel
Martina Demmel, who started climbing only in 2017, has done Heim nach Afrika (9a) in Kochel. It is a link-up that first Pirmin Bertle reported the FA, calling iโฆ
29 July 2010
Second 9a for Pirmin Bertle
Pirmin Bertle has done Cabane au Canada, 9a in Rawyl. "One of the best hard lines in Switzerland. Pure endurance on 80 hard moves in one big overhanging slab. With 19 tries (at least for me :) a quite fast ascent." Pirmin is #9 in the ranking game.
8 December 2010
Two 8c+ by Pirmin Bertle
Pirmin Bertle has confirmed two 8c+ at Kalymnos, Inshallah and Gora Guta Gutarak which Adam Ondra onsighted last year and gave 8c. "Five weeks of fucked up conditions and then, on the last day, wind from the north. And suddenly everything felt different :)ย
Two 8c+ on the very same day!!!"
Related news
28 November 2022
Heim nach Afrika 9a by Martina Demmel
Martina Demmel, who started climbing only in 2017, has done Heim nach Afrika (9a) in Kochel. It is a link-up that first Pirmin Bertle reported the FA, calling iโฆ
29 July 2010
Second 9a for Pirmin Bertle
Pirmin Bertle has done Cabane au Canada, 9a in Rawyl. "One of the best hard lines in Switzerland. Pure endurance on 80 hard moves in one big overhanging slab. With 19 tries (at least for me :) a quite fast ascent." Pirmin is #9 in the ranking game.
8 December 2010
Two 8c+ by Pirmin Bertle
Pirmin Bertle has confirmed two 8c+ at Kalymnos, Inshallah and Gora Guta Gutarak which Adam Ondra onsighted last year and gave 8c. "Five weeks of fucked up conditions and then, on the last day, wind from the north. And suddenly everything felt different :)ย
Two 8c+ on the very same day!!!"
Favorites
8 June 2026
Janja Garnbret does Bibliographie (9b+)
Janja Garnbret has added another milestone to her remarkable climbing career by becoming the first woman to climb Bibliographie (9b+) in Cรฉรผse, one of the hardeโฆ
Jorge Diaz-Rullo reports on Instagram that he has made the first ascent of Cafe Colombia in Margalef. At 27, heโs already stacked four 9b+ sends and now heโs adโฆ
16 March 2026
Ondra flashes 3*8C in two weeks
โI stopped focusing on competition bouldering after last yearโs World Cup in Prague, partly because I can already feel it on my body, especially in my shoulders. The modern competition style, with a lot of jumping from one hold to another, is very demanding for the shoulders.
Outdoor bouldering isโฆ




