Whiteout is not 8c.

Hey, Whiteout used to be 8b+, but there have been some resent upgrades (why, I'm not sure). From my prespective, Blackout was up-graded to 14a from 13d because it is more difficult than Tweek (13d), or at least I thought so. Tweek took me 3 tries, and Blackout took me 4 days WITH beta. Blackout was upgraded to 5.13d/14a 1 or 2 years ago. the V9 start for Whiteout adds a grade to Blackout as well as the other routes that started on the winched-up jug start. Anyway, Whiteout is listed as 14b in some of the newer guides, such as "Logan Canyon LimeStone Climbing" by Casey Hyer (published in 2004) (www.nuclimbing.com) and "Rock Climbing Utah" a Falcon Guide, by Stewart M. Green (1998). the online guide, DrTopo still has the route at 5.14a. I think I will post it as a 14a/b, to avoid any further conteversy. Thank you for bringing this up.

That is kind of interesting. I'm sure you know, but the original Blackout with the winch start was graded 8c (!) by Wiegand. If you look closely at the wall right after the crux, you'll see that he filled in a bunch of pockets to force a big dyno. Wiegand blacked out after the ascent...thus the name. But then Joe Brooks repeated it really quickly and downgraded it to 8b. And he thought it was easier than Tweak. Then Dale added the boulder start and called it 8b+. Joe found a kneebar right before the crux, and you can get almost a no-hands rest right before you do the crux, and it is .12d from there. The crux itself is about a v7 boulder problem, I would say, so I don't see how the whole Blackout can be any harder than 8b, and 8b+ with the winch start. Maybe the whole thing is 8c if you don't use the kneebar, but that wouldn't be the easiest way up. So that would be like a variation or something.

Just wondering, on the topic of China Wall, do you know if anybody has done the Big Brawl with the direct finish? The direct finish was done off the traverse a few years ago, at about .13b, but I hadn't heard if anybody had done the Big Brawl into it. I was thinking that would probably make the Brawl about .14a, and .14b with the boulder start.

I think this site is beginning to loose it.. They never check the news properly - many news are completely wrong. And they dont get the interesting news. I actually heard F. Nicole has put up dosens of 8Bs without reporting it, as sort of a boycot of 8a.nu; This is in fact the rumour: the top climbers boycot the site. Has anyone heard similar stuff?

I saw and could not reach the knee bar, so I couldnt get the rest; and it couldnt be a no hands rest, the kneebar is too bad and far away, you would have to be like, 6 1/2 feet to feel comfortable in it. The V7 is not the crux, like most people think, though. I personally thought the crux was getting there, (V10 bp for me) and then to a bad rest/hard clip to the V7, to the 12d finish (desperate) and then linking all that with the V9 start was just hard! I have done many confirmed 13+s and I believe that Blackout is a 14a & whiteout is a 14b, at least just for me. By the way, the linkup you were talking about does look pretty sick! Matt

.