Someone changed my scorecard!

There are 20 000 ascent recorded at Kalymnos and the same goes for Frankenjura. In order to improve the data base, we sometimes correct the spelling etc. For every "crag" (which often is orginized based on what is included in the topo) you can also record a sector. 97 % use Kalymnos as the "crag" and in order to have the highest quality of the crag data base, we some times replace sector names with Kalymnos etc. In fact, we invest many hours doing so for the 1.3 million ascent data base. In the long run, this is the best but of course we can make mistakes.  

Well, Kalymnos is not a crag and I'll change it back. People don't think it's a crag, they just put the suggested name for simplicity. Just because someone wants Kalymnos to be the biggest crag in the world does not mean you should traverse the databases this inpolite way. The spelling became worse on many of my other crags, where now the leading capital letter is now down-cased. I do not want my scorecard to be fiddled with any more, thanks. If you want to be able to see all ascents from for instance Kalymnos, make a new column in the database called area or something where we can put the overlying geographical instance.

I agree, this doesn't make any sense at all. Am I not in control of what's on my own scorecard? Will you also change route comments to the way you want them? Correct spelling mistakes there, too, maybe? And btw, you forgot to change all the crag names of my routes from Squamish to "Squamish", and I also think you should put "Spain" as a crag on all my routes from Spain, as this will make it a lot easier for people to find them once on the spot—they won't even need a topo anymore! Oh, and what about all my routes from Bergen? We have around 40–50 crags here and that makes it really complicated, so why not just put "Bergen" on all of them? You should also change back all the grades people put on their routes to the ones they're supposed to be and not the ones people think they have in order to improve your routes database—after all it'll only take me a couple of weeks to change them back.

I am sorry that you feel this way. It is correct that we change misspelling but  we never change grades even if we often get this suggestion. It is impossible tomake 100 % happy. Regarding Kalymnos, some 97 % register Kalymnos as the crag and in order to improve the data base, we sometimes add Kalymnos for members who have recorded a sector name. We never delete the sector name. The same changes have been made for Frankenjura and Railay etc. Regarding Bergen, we have the option to add a Area/Destination name as an umbrella...this have already been done for most of the destinations in  France, Spain and Italy. Ihope you understand that in the long run, the data base would be improved if everybody would use Kalymnos as the crag name. This will make it quicker to record ascents as you simply start write "ka..." and then get kalymnos as an automatic suggestion and then you simply click a grade and then the most popular routes are listed. This will be the future way of recording ascents, and it is much quicker. 

Thank you for the answers JL, it is probably difficult to make the right compromises. The easy way to register ascents on this site with the auto completion is nice but you really shouldn't write "ka..." as a crag and then get kalymnos, you should write "Gra...", "Ody...", "Spa..." and get Grande Grotta, Odyssey and Spartacus, and then the umbrella would also be automatically filled. Crags like Panorama has sectors. The reason so many people use Kalymnos etc as crag is that the majority has alreayd done it, hence the auto-completion and a large number of routes are shown, it's easiest and faster. You (8a.nu) decide, not the members. Then you try to blame the members for redefining what a crag is? I hope you understand that in the long run, the data base would be improved if everybody would use the real name of the crags for the crags instead of the area/destination-umbrella.

Thanks for understanding. Since the beginning 97 % wrote Kalymnos as the "crag" and we have corrected it so now maybe 99.5 % of the Kalymnos ascents are recorded as Kalymnos. This was nothing 8a invented, I guess, when you are talking about which route you did on the island you refer to Kalymnos when describing them and not Arhi etc. Maybe, we should change the "crag" to "area"...this is at least how we try to manage it...and it is not easy :-)  And for your understanding, the destination names are Lleida, Bergen or Avignon etc which has several crags around.

I've got to agree with Jens on this one. The crag should be called Kalymnos, its easier for people (especially for those who are unfamiliar with the area) to search ascents this way.

I was just going to suggest you change the name "crag" to "area" or the like instead in case you want Kaly to be registered first in the database. Then optionally one could specify with a crag like "Spartacus" or "Odyssey". I would agree with this, as it's always nice to see a (for me) foreign route name associated with a known area/destination (like in the best latest ascents list on the 8a.nu front page). Only you'd still need three columns in the database, so why not just add an extra "nearest city" or "area/destination" choice? And make "crag" an option similar to "sector"? I understand that you can not always make everyone 100 % happy. But still I disagree that this would be a problem here, as I'm pretty sure most people would be happier to be the only person able to decide what's to be on his/her scorecard than if you decide it. And as for "Ka..", as Erik states, the same happens when I write "Sp..." (then "Spartacus" pops up), and I used this function for a long time already (happy with that, thanks). And why do you not let people decide for themselves regarding crag names when you so strongly suggest people put their own grades on their routes rather than just putting the topo grade? (Btw, just for the record, please don't change my grades, route names or personal comments, cause I actually want them to be exactly the way they are, even if they might have spelling mistakes.) I understand it's a problem for the quality of the database that people register different crag names, deliberately or not misspell etc., but can't you still make your database based on the scorecards without changing them? And for your understanding, the destination names are Kalymnos, Lofoten or Squamish etc., and they have several crags around. And also, that 97 % of 8a.nu users register Kalymnos as a crag doesn't necessarily say anything more than exactly that. PS: It's MY personal route register! And I don't even have a copy of it in case you decide to change something else.

Thanks for the suggestions. We are always discussing our prio list...there are many things to improve. In the beginning we only had one space where you did write the crag name. We have added three options in order to improve the data base: Country, Area and Sector. This has made the recording more complicated. In the future we might do as you suggest as we plan to seperate a simple recording from an advance recording with all details. The data base and the Tick list are the core business of 8a...I am sure most people think we have done a good job with it, especially since we have corrected spellings etc. If you write "Sp"...Spartacus pops up but it is automatically recorded as Kalymnos with Spartacus as the sector. We try our best...we have not deleted anything from your scorecard, we have just in some few cases moved your crag name to the sector name. The 8a team has probably spent 500 hours in order to improve the data base. The 8a data base is unique as you can create Tick List for Kalymnos or any crag (area) in the world :-) in order to climb the best quality climbs.

I find there's a lot of hair-splitting going on here. it is clear that for big popular areas it is much easier to register under the regional name (kalymnos instead of grande grotta, fontainebleau instead of bas cuvier, etc...) my 2 cents suggestion would be to change the name of the "crag" field to "crag/area", maybe people won't complain... moreover, registering under a generic area name offers a nice option for those who want to spray, uh, i meant keep track of their ascents done in secret/sensible spots. (back when the place was still secret for real, one could for instance register "Molonk" in Ticino, instead of putting the name of the valley or, worse, of the village...)

Agree, gianluca, this is hair-splitting. Anyway, don't change my ascent list again, please. How about a button on each card to conform all crags etc when it pleases you?