no traverse respect?

Thanks for you comment! The only harsh stance 8a have taken towards traverses is that the grading system seems illogical. Normally, an 8A traverse is much easier to do than an 8A boulder.   8a have suggested that traverses should be graded 8Aa, in the same way as grading long endurance routes. Before this, it was a tendancy that the hardest graded boulder in the world had nothing to do with doing the hardest move in the world. (In the 8a yearbook, 8a list the hardest boulders in the world, which does not include traverses and boulderroutes). I guess you have great traverses in Tulsa and maybe their grades are as hard as boulders. The problem is that, normally, traverses are graded softer, halfway to routes. It should be underlined that, you might say that, bouldering and traverse grading were invented in Fontainebleau. When it comes to the scorecard, we could of course separate boulderroutes but at the moment there is only a tick box, "Traverses". Comments and suggestions on how we should deal and report traverses and boulderroutes are welcome.

If the "8a" traverse is not as hard as the "8a" boulder problem then one of he ratings is wrong! Simple as that. Taverses may have a closer relationship to sport climbs in move counts but, they are on boulders, you don't have to clip or get much elevation, one might use a pad(s) near a crux they are bouldering with many moves. They could be likened to top-roping if anything but, that is not as important as the skill, of rating, of the first and maybe subsequent couple ascentionist and the consensus rating they arrive at. The simple fact is that if you're best boulder problem is 7a you should not be able to do an 8a (V11) traverse unless perhaps you seige it for perhaps years in which case one might also be able to do a 8a boulder problem as well. I would definately argue against seperating traverses/boulder routes on the score cards unless you had a seperate ranking, which might be a good idea. It is my experience that long hard traverses take longer to do then short hard problems  due to the required memorization and sectional work that has to be done. Any how, it should be a wash, what with the grading. I'll admit, traverses are not as glamorous or glorious as up problems but if graded right they should garner the same respect if not perhaps more for the dedication required! Thanks jens for your interest. Now get out there and do some travers training it pays off way better than fun, ego boosting bouldering for sure!  Jack Dixon

hmm..  is`nt the route grade system based on the overall difficuty, and the boulder grading for the hardest move? so a 100` traverse is best graded with a route grad, and say a 5 move traverse with the a boulder grade. like the ¨problem¨ weel of life..  is`nt this best graded with a route grade since it is more a endurance climb than doing some hard moves? 

Climbing grading both for routes and boulders are the same = How difficult (How much Time & Effort) it takes for the community to repeat it. However, an 8A boulder is more or less as difficult as an 8b route or an 8a+ boulderroute/traverse. The strange thimg is that once we hear about Wheel of Life or any other endurance or semiendurance boulder, we never now which grade system that has been used?

One cannot apply an "across the board" time line(s) to problems as it may take one person this long to do a problem and say, Fred Nicole, a lot less time to do it but, that does not make the problem any more or less hard. And I definately don't think "the hardest move" idea would very well encompass the difficulty of any problems that were more than 10 or 20 hand moves that might in essence be two problems in consideration which has been disscussed at length on this site. I'm also going to argue against the "8A boulder = 8b route" point because guys were sport climbing 8b (5.13d) in the 80's but I don't think were bouldering anywhere near 8A (V11), with any regularity, could be wrong but, I think that equation is a little imbalanced. It takes an individual to know the ratings. For example, right now I am getting V6's in a session, let's say somewhere between flash and 10 tries. And because I also endurance train, in the 25- 50 move range, I should be getting a V6 traverse, in that range, in a session or perhaps a similay amount of tries which could be 10, across three days. Some thinking like this should guide me to the "boulder" rating of a long problem. Now it may take a much stronger climber much less time to do any of the above mentioned examples that is why the time line test is flawed for obvious reasons. Which leads us to the real determination of problem difficulty, which is comparison. Here in the U.S. we of course use the V scale that scale coming out of Hueco compliments of John Sherman. And here we find to what we must ultimately compare and contrast to arrive at ratings and I would imagine that Fontainbleu plays this same role in Europe. Anyway, I agree that it is common for traverses and boulder/routes to be hard rated to overated because of the length and extra time it takes to do them. But, in the end, It should be a wash and if one takes the time to do many long projects the answers to the questions of grade(s) will emerge. Jack Dixon