Jens forum opinions!

Jens people criticize your seemingly insatiable desire to pigeon hole climbing into nice little mathematical equations. Despite your constant "Debate/Jens" posts you are unwilling to actually debate anyone. Concede when you are wrong and try and to directly answer critical questions from your detractors. " I never offend any persons with my opinions as I try to focus on the object. Even so, some think my opinions are offensive  and by calling me an idiot etc they want to teach me to be more polite. " Re-read those sentences until you understand how ridiculous they are and how many perceive you because of it. Seriously.

+1

so if I write +2 will you deactivate my account as well?

@ Ben: Here we go again, I get personal criticism from a person who just say I am ridiculous. Could you please, instead give me a questions to answer to? I have never deactivated an account. This is just another critical comment that is not correct that is not correct. I have deleted accounts that repetitively use bad words and fake accounts etc.

Jens, I agree that some are only posting to critsize (you). However i totally understand why as you give them ample reason to do so. The most important reason is that nobody believes that you yourselve wants to learn. If you really want more and open discussion YOU will have to give the example, you will have to be the role model. Here is what i would recommend to you: 1. Look up the words "debate" and "discussions" in the dictionary. 2. To me it looks that you are always debating. Debating with someone is lame, uninteresting. Certainly there are perceived winners, but in a debate someone will never change his mind. 3. Start your post with "discussion by Jens" 4. Discuss your views rather then debating them. That will require answers that are not only formally true but also ethically, expressions backed up by data, admitting you believe something rather then "knowing" it is true, changing your mind once in a while, and most importantly admitting you are wrong once in a while. In short: Self criticism Or if you want to take a different view: If you critisize yourselve you leave no more room for someone else to critisize you. Good Luck!

Thanks I will start with, "Discussions/Jens". This might be better. The thing is that very few want to discuss and give another alternative personal opinion. Instead, most guys only critisize my opinion, trying to say that I am wrong. Thanks for your alternative, "Discussion/Jens" :-)

It won't change overnight but if you also do point 4, it will be a discussion. If you don't it will be a debate and in that case start with "Debate/Jens" p.s my girlfriends lets me 2 times each year in which case i'm correct and she's wrong . Once on my birthday and one time at choice (her choice offcourse).

Jens, perhaps you will gleam the meaning of my response by (re)reading your quote and reconciling the contradiction between the first and second sentences. "Very few want to discuss and give another alternative personal opinion". Do you even read people's responses? Maybe you stop reading as soon as you realize they don't agree with you, which would certainly explain your oversimplification of my (and others) criticisms.

Jens, I think that what was done with the most recent news piece " 9a or 9a+ by Adam Ondra (16)" is perfect, and gets to the heart of this issue. The news piece states facts, such as that Ondra suggested a downgrade. It also compares Ondra's performance to that of other climbers using numbers. This is what the news on the front page should say. You follow this with a statement, as a comment, rather than part of the news, where you talk about how humble Ondra is. This is excellent. I think people tend to get upset when the comments you make are mixed in with the news. Also, the internet is difficult, it is easy to misread the tone of a person's comment and become upset (this happened between us with one I posted recently, I think). All of these people enjoy your site, you mustn't take their comments too seriously.

see the forum on 8as updated e-grade comparison for prime examples of jens inablilty to hold a discussion, concede a point or listen to anything anybody else has to say. btw i thought some of the coments on here were well framed, thoughtful and constructive. jens u should read and have a good think about what some people here hav said.

@ Adam: It is very hard to have a discussion who starts it by writing, "   2009-11-19 21:09:34   Reply   this made me laugh, its been shown time and time again that 8a has no understanding of the e-grade what so ever, why do you bother? these amendments are complete nonsense What should I reply to this?

yor reply to this was; So please, explain what is wrong with the 8a one that make you laugh...we might update it. so i gave u detailed resonses as to why it was wrong backed up by examples of routes and my thinking behind each statement you never respond to anybodies statements just repeat how u made ukclimbing change their table. (something which may not even be true, and to me has little bearing on wether the 8a table is accurate) my last post, asked why not present a number of conversion tables available and have a vote by 8a users on which one gives the closest and most informative comparison. this would give a consensus not one persons opinion. as ususal i recieved no response to this suggestion

I read on another post that some climbers are angry at you. I don't know why that it, it's none of my business. However I don't think expressing that anger through continuously bitchy comments is fair. It spoils the forums for everyone. For instance some people use the forums to criticise you over one tiny spelling mistake. I imagine this must make you somewhat sensitive. However there are also plenty on here who are genuinely respectful whilst still disagreeing. This post is a good example of that. The comments above are thoughtful and genuine rather than hostile and bitchy - worth taking notice of. Finally I think some problems stem from language. It might be good if you could run your posts by some English speaking climbers first just to check the language. I'd have thought this wouldn't be too hard to do and would slow down posts by only a few minutes.

I read on another post that some climbers are angry at you. I don't know why that it, it's none of my business. However I don't think expressing that anger through continuously bitchy comments is fair. It spoils the forums for everyone. For instance some people use the forums to criticise you over one tiny spelling mistake. I imagine this must make you somewhat sensitive. However there are also plenty on here who are genuinely respectful whilst still disagreeing. This post is a good example of that. The comments above are thoughtful and genuine rather than hostile and bitchy - worth taking notice of. Finally I think some problems stem from language. It might be good if you could run your posts by some native English speaking climbers first just to check the language. I'd have thought this wouldn't be too hard to do and would slow down posts by only a few minutes. Might also spot some other problems too. Two brains are better than one.

Thanks for advices. I guess that one reason is my poor english. There are several personal helping out editing the news but it would not feel right to have these persons also checking all my forum posts. Having thought more about this and guess that the main reason for the sometimes heated discussions actually relate to me NOT showing a humble side when I try to create discussions and interact in the forum. I am sorry if I have stepped on some toes while debating and I will try work on my forum discussing technique :-)