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Forum: TUR / News / Desgranges, Lehmann and Noguchi double tops Login in to contribute
Desgranges, Lehmann and Noguchi double tops
OffLine 8a.nu
  2018-07-06 00:00:00    
Perfect route setting and a perfect start of the Lead World Cup 2018 in Villars with three double tops; Romain Desgranges, Sasha Lehmann and Akiyo Noguchi. Interesting that the there were three male Japanese Top-5 in the qualification including boulder stars Tomoa Narasaki and Yushiyuki Ogata. In total, 13 Japanese made it to the semi tomorrow. Other then that, no big surprices in the result list.
OffLine Jan V'
  2018-07-07 10:43:32    
Three male Japanese among top 5 in qualification and 13 Japanese in total in semifinal are no surprise, moreso certainly no big surprise. Why it should be big surprise, anyway?
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2018-07-07 13:05:43    
In comparison to last year, this was a step forward for Japan.
OffLine Jan V'
  2018-07-09 17:00:10    
@Jens that is no explanation, because to say "this was a step forward for Japan" is very different wording from "13 Japanese in semifinals are big surprise".

Anyway - small step, maybe, last year they've had 12 athletes in semifinal. Hardly one athletes more is big surprise.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2018-07-09 19:58:51    
Last year there were a total of 4 Japanese in the final in Villars in 2017. Normally, there were around 5 Japanese in the semifinal in the WC 2017. In the last WC, with just a total of 113 athletes there were 12 Japanese in the semifinal as you say.

In Villars in 2018 there were 155 athletes and they got 13 athletes in the semi. For me this was a big surprise. Further more, most of the Japanese athletes focus on boudering and that season is not over yet.
OffLine Jan V'
  2018-07-10 11:54:37    
Seriously? Ridiculous argumenting :) Basically you say: it's a big surprise there were 13 Japanese in semifinals because last year there were 12 Japanese in semifinals. Yep, makes a sense (sarcasm).

You mention number of participants when it suits you but you don't mention that when it doesn't, too ;)

Same old story with you Jens... :)
OffLine Jan V'
  2018-07-10 12:42:01    
@Jens last year Japanese semifinalists in each world cup - 4, 5, 5, 8, 4 in Edinburgh (important to mention only 5! Japanese perticipated), 11, 9 in Xiamen (important to mention only 25 female perticipated), 12. So no, you can't say there were normaly 5 Japanese in semifinals last year. And since you've had world cups where 11 and 12 Japanese got into semifinal, hardly one more is big surprise. I hate to say that but you argumenting is biased.

Also I think Jens you are aware that number of athletes in semifinals depends on overall number of starting athletes from a given country. So when you start 10 athletes you can't have 13 in semifinal. Also it depends on who specifically starts: when no Tomoa Narasaki or Yoshiuki Ogata or Akiyo Noguchi Miho Nonaka starts, none of them can make it to the semifinals, right? No one of them (for example) took part last year in Villars.

One more thing - using total number of participating athletes (which you do repetitively) is poor argument because number it tends to incerase each year, so you can't really compare that. At least if you calculated share of each country on total number you'd get more accurate result but even that is poor argument for proving that some country improved because it's also heavily depends on specific athletes starting.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2018-07-10 13:36:29    
As you say, the numbers of athletes are increasing so it is surprising that more Japanese than ever reached the semi.

It is a point that also more Japanese participate but at the same time you can imagine that in general the more from one country the lower they are ranked.

If you have a competition with just 29 female, it is not actually interesting how many made it to the Top-26 semi. The reason why getting 13 in the semi final was surprising was related to the record number of participants in Villars. It is impressive that the boulder specialists could perform so well also in Lead.

You are of course welcome to say that it was not a surprise.
OffLine Jan V'
  2018-07-12 22:39:22    
@Jens "As you say, the numbers of athletes are increasing so it is surprising that more Japanese than ever reached the semi."

Yep, one more athlere than previous year, that is really HUUUUUGE, very surprising improvement ;) Anyway it is not so simple. It MIGHT, just might be approaching truth only if share of Japanese athletes was same or smaller; but it could be absolutely misleading thought, too. It depends on specific names starting (as I've showed previously) which relates to the depth of the field; you can have huge starting field, thousands of climbers , still the similar ones (the best ones) will reach the finals. Any bells ringing? Anyway you did not even calculate share of Japanese athletes, so you are just... ;) again your biased point of view speaks volumes.

"If you have a competition with just 29 female, it is not actually interesting how many made it to the Top-26 semi" Really, Captain Obvious (why do you think I've specifically mentioned number of participating athletes?) Anyway - what is your point exactly? Do you want to say that makes it 5 Japanese athletes in the semifinals thent? You can't say there were 5 Japanese athletes in the semifinal anyway. Btw. suddenly you are well aware of importance of share of Japanese athletes on the total number of starting athletes...as usually when it suits you understand things, but when it doesn't, you can't comprehend the same simple thing.

So callled "boulder specialists" performed very well in lead even last year, you've had to miss it. From the top of my head least Yoshiuki Ogata, Kokoro Fujii and Tomoa Narasaki only from Japanese team reacher finals last year (with Tomoa and Youshiuki on podium), but there were many other boulder specialists in semifinals. So for acknowledged person it was no surprise seeing them in the semifinals. Where is the surprise given such circumstances? Hardly you can call it surprise. Other thing is many of them aren't really boulder specialists. What it means to be a boulder specialist, anyway? Where is the border?

...again, no self-reflection showed even in absolutely obvious mistakes (for example number of Japanese athletes in semifinals). This way you are not doing yourself good service...