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Forum: FRA / Editorial / Way too hard female semi setting Login in to contribute
Way too hard female semi setting
OffLine 8a.nu
  2019-04-15 00:00:00    
The commentators in Moscow said that they did not think the route setters over cocked the female boulders they in a good way challenged the very best. I totally disagree. The purpose of the qualification and the semi final is not to create a nice challenge for the best climber. It is about getting the Top-20 and the Top-6 in a nice show for the spectators. Further more, these rounds should be fair for the athletes.

Route setting is super hard and it is amazing how often they are spot on. However, there will always be situation when the boulders were too hard. The best way to make them fun to watch and fair for the athletes is to add one more zone.
OffLine Simon Maillard
  2019-04-14 15:19:06    
"The purpose of the qualification and the semi final is not to create a nice challenge for the best climber. It is about getting the Top-20 and the Top-6 in a nice show for the spectators."

Don't call it a fact please, this is just your opinion who, as we know it now, is most of  the time far from being shared by anybody else. 
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-04-14 15:25:20    
So what is your opinion? Do you not think most of the female in this comp agree with me?
OffLine Simon Maillard
  2019-04-14 16:08:43    
As always Jens, I quote you on something and you answer on something else.

I might enjoy watching hard rounds, you might not, but it's athletes opinion who matter, not spectators one, not mine, nor yours.
OffLine anikoy
  2019-04-14 16:22:55    
"Don't call it a fact please, this is just your opinion who, as we know it now, is most of the time far from being shared by anybody else."

Totally agree.
My opinion is that semis should be hard, even harder than finals. Although, this time they were too hard on women's side. But men's semis showed everyone who is the boss and were perfectly set, in my opinion. Adding one more zone on a 6-8 moves problems will create a mess.

Finals are for the show and spectators. But not semis.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-04-14 16:50:05    
@ Simon: Do you really not think the athletes in general thought the female boulders were too hard?

@anikoy: Thanks for agreeing with me saying the female boulders were too hard.

Please explain why you think it will be a mess adding one more zone? In USA they have three zones and they think this works better.
OffLine anikoy
  2019-04-14 17:38:00    
@Jens: :) I do agree with you that boulders were too hard, but disagree that semis are for the show. So, I meet you in the middle, I guess.

I think that adding one more zone is just adding another challenge for routesetters - to properly select which hold should be a first zone and so on. If we try to analyze competition boulder problems then we can see that majority of problems has one or two crux moves. You do one crux - you get to the zone, you do another one - you get to the top. If there are more crux moves, or when every move is a crux then it is La Sportiva Legends Only format.
OffLine Simon Maillard
  2019-04-14 18:00:31    
Once again Jens my opinion don't matter, if you want athletes opinion you should ask athletes, not random people comfortably sitting on their couch.

If womens semifinalists enjoyed it this way then it's perfect, if they don't then it was too hard. It's that simple.

"The semi final round at the boulder world cup here in Moscow was a brutal one. It sure felt Like a battle field out there. Despite the difficulty I actually think we had a good set of boulders. We were tested physically and mentally across a range of movements and styles."

And about W4 : "The last move felt so weird and impossible..."

Shauna Coxsey

That's the kind of opinion who matter.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-04-14 18:40:11    
It seems the route setters did agree with me that the semi was to hard and because of this they made some changes, making the finals too easy.

Also Janja agreed with me commentating as did Gregor Vezonik :)
OnLine JLH
  2019-04-14 20:55:02    
Generally I prefer (too) hard over (too) easy. It's interesting to see the battle also with the best ones (like in semis), not just walking through (women's final).
The right difficulty is the one which make good separation. In that sense W2 in the finals was useless (6 flashes). The problem with W4 in the semis was not so much top was too hard but the zone was too easy, making no distinction for the final's pretenders.
OffLine Teilzeit Abenteurer
  2019-04-15 09:28:38    
Aaaand there are obviously different oppinions also among the athletes as Shauna Coxsey writes on her instagram that cite: "Despite the difficulty I actually think we had a really good set of boulders."
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-04-15 13:15:22    
I think it is obvious that if you win you will like the setting no matter what.
OffLine Teilzeit Abenteurer
  2019-04-15 13:49:47    
Shauna actually became second, while according to you Janja, who won the event, said that the boulders were too hard.

In my oppinion, ideally it should be like it was in the men's competition: Every boulder was topped, so none of them was too hard. Furthermore, the boulders gave a good seperation of the athletes not only by tries, but mainly by tops and zones.
Taking that as a reference, only boulder #4 was too hard in the women's semifinal as every other boulder was topped at least once. On the other hand, the women's final boulders were much too easy as two of them were topped by all contestants, one of them even flashed by everyone, one was done by five and one by four out of six.
Accordingly, the boulders provided very poor seperation, so that it required even countback to the semifinal round to seperate the athletes, which I think is way worse than the slightly too hard boulders in the semifinal.
OffLine Martijn Pieterse
  2019-04-17 14:50:20    
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OffLine Henning Wang
  2019-04-18 16:10:20    
The boulders in the semi was for the women perhaps a tiny bit too hard, but that is WAY better then them being too easy! 3 out of 4 got topped and the fourth allmost got topped. The athletes really got challenged, something for example Janja have been complaining about them not being many times before, and thats how it should be. It was also really exiting to watch as it was a very open round all the way untill the end and you got to see who was stronger/better that day, not just lucky.
The final on the other hand was way to easy. If you want to be critical about the setting you should be focusing on that they got scared and made the boulders for the final too easy after the semi, not how hard the semi was.. The semis did their job seperating just fine.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-04-18 16:47:15    
"If you want to be critical about the setting you should be focusing on that they got scared and made the boulders for the final too easy after the semi, not how hard the semi was."

Please read the report.
"It seems the route setters, based on the few number of tops in the semi, made some late changes, resulting in too easy boulders in the final."
OffLine Steve Zissou
  2019-04-20 08:00:58    
Janja Garnbret in an interview: "the setting in the semis was ok, boulders were hard as they should be, only the final boulders were a bit too easy." And as always no complains about the friction.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-04-20 12:29:40    
Obviously Janja like hard setting. She wants to be challenged. On the other hand, the route setters did not agree with Janja and thought they were too hard in the semi so they made them easier in the final.
OffLine Henning Wang
  2019-04-21 18:35:41    
Janja Garnbret in an interview: "the setting in the semis was ok, boulders were hard as they should be"

How is that agreeing with your statement Jens?
The headline you made here is: "Way too hard female semi setting"

As far as I can see Neither Janja or anyone else here seems to agree with that statement, the only thing we agree on is that the final was way to easy..
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-04-21 18:54:59    
Please read my comment right above!

The route setters must agree with my opinion, as they made the final boulders so much easier.

I am sure that most of the 13 female who did at most two zones, think it would have been more fun with easier boulders :)
OffLine Teilzeit Abenteurer
  2019-04-25 09:08:32    
"The route setters must agree with my opinion, as they made the final boulders so much easier."

That's a correlation, but not necessarily a causality.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-04-25 09:18:54    
Also the commentators said so and if we do not consider that as a causality, then the route setters are very poor. I mean, if they have so bad knowledge of the level so first they set way too hard and later way to easy, they should never be allowed to set world cups again. I have been told that the route setters said they made them easier in the final and I believe that is true :)
OnLine Endre Verden
  2019-04-26 11:01:11    
Good setting in the semis.
Bad setting in the finals.

I personally just get disinteressted in the whole competation when it's a flash-fest.
"WOW a top", who cares. If I want to see climbers jog up problems, whixh don't challenage them, then I can go to the gym and watch random climbers.