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Skyler Weeks completes hardest dyno in the world?
OffLine 8a.nu
  2008-10-02 00:00:00    
After 76 (yes, 76) days of effort Skyler Weeks has done what he feels to be the hardest jug-to-jug dyno in the world, Zion. It measures about 8 1/2 feet (~260cm) from start hold to finish, and jumps directly out a river-sculpted scoop in Clear Creek Canyon, Colorado. Skyler didn't propose a grade for the climb. Skyler currently lives only for dyno climbing. He trains with Denver Nuggets, the professional basketball team. This footage as well as other huge dynos, will be included in Chuck Fryberger's new film Pure, which will also feature many other top boulderers from around the world. The DVD is scheduled for release in early 2009. Grade 8C+ speculation in comment :)
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2008-10-02 08:45:18    
If climbing grades are based on How difficult it is to do a climb measured by the Time and Effort it would take for the climbing community to repeat this boulder dyno, I would like to propose 8C+. This speculation is also based on that Skyler holds the world record in dynoing at 2.625. "Official" dyno contests are held on a 20-degree overhanging wall, starting with twin large handholds and a ladder of identical footholds. Contestants leap up and left at a 45-degree angle to catch a jug that is moved progressively farther from the left starting hold. It should be mentioned that Peter Wurth has jumped 2.725 cm when he pushed with his feet on the starting holds.
In other words, this might be the most difficult boulder to repeat, thus 8C+. However, theoretically, if some of Skyler's basketball friends would start bouldering and being apart of the community, they might repeat and downgrade it :) Skyler has a vertical leep of close to 80 cm which is more than the average NBA player. Michal Jordan had 121 cm and the world record holder, Kadour Ziani did have an amazing 152.4 cm.
This is of course based on that the dyno is most of all a feet, and biceps thing where there is great advantage to be very, very tall. I am very curios to what happened with his legs after 76 days and what kind of crash pad he was using.
OffLine Bergbua
  2008-10-02 09:15:19    
Do you actually think that dynos can be rated neglecting the body length? I mean you admitted yourself that a basketballer would downgrade it. I just refer to the example of Hale Bopp in bleau which is rated "somewhere between 7 and 8". Thus the term the hardest dyno in the world is quite misleading, isn't it?
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2008-10-02 09:30:51    
Skyler is around 185 cm. The vertical leep record holder is under 180 cm.
My theoretical example did just aim to give an example that it is impossible to grade something like this.
Nevertheless, I am fully convinced that Zion is the "hardest dyno in the world" and therefore one could speculate that it is 8C+. Grades are and will always be very subjective even if we are talking 75 metres endurance routes.
OffLine User Deactivated
  2008-10-02 10:28:13    
A think it's very difficult to speculate about a grade as Skyler himself hasn't said anything about it. Since this is a jug-to-jug dyno, and, hence, doesn't seem to require any extreme kind of finger strength, this makes it even more difficult I guess. Some might argue dynos is harder to grade because they're typically morpho. I'd say dynos aren't necessarily more morpho than any other one-move-wonders, just more obviously so. Every body type (as long as you're not weak and/or fat) has it's advantages. You just have to find the problem that suits you.
OffLine Morgan Boissenot
  2008-10-02 11:43:38    
I think that you're speculating too much. As I know, there are no 8B's in this style and no 8C+ confirmed in any style in the world.
For example, Rainbow rocket in fontainebleau is about the same size (around 250/260cm jug to jug) and is graded 8A (http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs_I52bydB0)
So you should be careful when you say grades like this..
But well, may be you're right we will see....
OffLine sidepull
  2008-10-02 17:03:09    
Hilarious!!! Jens says, "Nevertheless, I am fully convinced that Zion is the "hardest dyno in the world" and therefore one could speculate that it is 8C+. Grades are and will always be very subjective even if we are talking 75 metres endurance routes." So you're certain you're right and in the next breath all grades are subjective. I have no problem with Jens posting opinions when they're based on him looking at all of the data here or induced from lots of discussions with top climbers but the contradiction in logic here is so laughably stupid that it removes any credibility. So either Jens is the ultimate troll, posting drunk, or he's an idiot.
OffLine James O'Connor
  2008-10-02 18:07:17    
I do not think most people here are aware of what a troll is. Which is kind of a good thing.
OffLine sidepull
  2008-10-02 20:35:57    
PS - is a dyno the only way to do this problem? from the pics, it looks like the dyno is a variation or "eliminate," e.g., it seems that there are holds that are just being skipped. that doesn't make the dyno less impressive, just less aesthetic. but as long as grades are being batted around, what would the grade of the non-dyno version of the problem be? if the original problem is v6 and now jens is suggesting v16 then, in a sense, the whole point of bouldering becomes more gray simply because I can eliminate holds on any problem to make it harder but that doesn't make the problem any better, it just makes the challenge more artificial. in sum, classic dynos are classic because you can only complete the problem by doing a dyno - is that the case here?
OffLine Adam Morgan
  2008-10-02 21:53:04    
i don't see a problem with being 'fully convinced... speculating'... and saying that grading is subjective.  he's not saying anyone else is wrong, but rather that his subjective opinion is given with full personal confidence. 
OffLine Sebastian
  2008-10-02 22:05:19    
@ sidepull : Good point. Interesting comment. For some problems you shouldn't / can't give a grade. I think this is one of it. "Very hard" + " 76 days" should be enough.
OffLine Jolli
  2008-10-03 07:44:20    
The WR guys´ name is Kadour Ziani, not Zihani.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2008-10-03 08:28:46    
If Zion is an elimination, I do not think it should be graded. I guess, 8a should have reported it but instead focused on that climbing is crazy, making somebody do something like this.
8a will find out more...as we plan to list the 10 most difficult boulders in the world in the yearbook 2008. In that list we will not inluce eliminations strange cariations or 'boulder routes'.
OnLine Christian Mengel
  2008-10-03 14:11:43    
It`s a shame with all those boulderroutes popping up. Seriously Jens, shouldn`t you focus on the majesty of a line rather than on the number of moves? I personally think that Witness the Fitness is a boulder, so is Terremer? How many moves does Terremer have? Certainly a lot more than Jade...Considering the whole boulderroute thing I think 8a should get it figured out properly before excluding climbs like Witness from the list it plans to publish...
OffLine User Deactivated
  2008-10-03 14:40:58    
Neither Witness the fitness nor Terremer is excluded from any list. We're not going to draw a definite line, but the problems we're excluding are all in the 25+ moves range.
OffLine Steve Juhasz
  2008-10-03 17:28:18    
Can 8a admin please make a scorecard for Skyler and make up some grades for his first ascents so we have something to get wet with? haha, just kidding-- :) love you jens!
OffLine matt lloyd
  2008-10-03 18:43:19    
If my two cents is worth anything here it is. First a blurb about Zion..... It is a clean line on bullet rock and is not a eliminate. That is what makes it so unique. There would be no way to climb the line the dyno takes regardless of difficulty. You could traverse around the dyno , but hey, thats its own thing.

Skyler has accomplished something very proud and we as climber's need to be aware that our "ethics" and "style" comments can, when said without tact, take away from a simply amazing feat. Skyler has not asked for your judgment nor does he care. With regards to the dyno's difficulty i can assure you that it is at a competitive level with the most difficult dyno's in the world. I know Skyler quite well and am the first one to give him shit, if this thing was a turd i would be the first one to call him out. When i tried it i said it was impossible. I was wrong again.... Props bro
OffLine sidepull
  2008-10-03 19:55:53    
one more point:
a lot has been made about the fact that 76 days of effort went into this problem and therefore that amount of time somehow correlates with a difficult grade but there hasn't been any information about skyler's previous ascents for us to understand what 76 days mean. for example, if someone who's previous hardest ascent was v1 took 76 days to send a problem we wouldn't assume that the problem in question was v16. does skyler have a ticklist that includes several v14's and 15 or two? please realize that i'm not deriding his accomplishment - i'm sure he was stoked when he latched the jug. his accomplishment stands on its own merits as something completely spectacular. my comments only have to do with the discussion regarding grading such a feat and erroneous assumptions that i think are being applied to make outlandish claims* (and more than anything these claims erode the perception of the accomplishment).  * in fact, in some ways it seems that 8a.nu is subscribing to the Madonna's early-career view of publicity - where generating attention was more important than generating good attention. why try to slap on a grade on something you haven't touched or even seen? is it born out of a pathological need to quantify everything (and btw, the distance of the dyno is problem enough quantification) or a desire to incite attention? for me, it doesn't align well with the general climbing ethos. 
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2008-10-04 11:03:02    
Skyler is the dyno world record holder so if he puts 76 days into a boulder I guess one could say it is a candidate for being the most difficult boulder in the world. If he can do his types of 8A+ dyno boulders in some few tries, one can speculate by time comparison gradingt hat he can do 8B in a day, 8B+ over 10 days and 8C over 60 days.
OffLine User Deactivated
  2008-10-04 15:43:20    
I Just got back from Font repeting the Rainbow rocket! For me i its the byfar the hardest dyno I'v done! If I grade it my self considering the tings i done in the past i whuld probebly give it the alredy exsisting grade 8A. but its hard grading "hold to hold" problems. To be the worldchampion in Dynoing dose not say anyting about a outdoor problem. In world champion the rules are diffrent then outdoor and you can not stand on the handholds as you can do out door.The type of movment and strength can be traind just bicause the stile in comps are just a spesific movment and its the same all the time, just diffrent distance from the holds.Outdoor ther is no rules! On rainbow i had to jump as hard as i culd and in the air move my foot upp and push down again whitout looking and hit the start hold to give me extra air. Iw done comps and reashed 2,55m that on my first try, as you have to make the jump on your firs or second try to qualify to the next level/round! 8C+ as a grade for a dyno sames to unsure considering the level is still in a to early state and the nummers of hard dynos to short? ps my spelling is bad! Hope some of it came out right? 
OffLine Jamie Emerson
  2008-10-04 16:29:24    
First of all, great job Skyler. This is a very nice obvious line and probably one of the hardest dynos in America (maybe the world) sick!
My suggestion is that in the same way that long boulder problems should get route grades, how about a dyno grade for specific moves like this one? Hale Bopp in Font?
These types of moves have little to do with something like The Story of Two Worlds or The Island and so instead of trying to compare them, it would be nice to see dynos compared with other dynos. Maybe simply the D scale?
OffLine Gabriel Moch
  2008-10-10 02:56:48    
could some one tell me how to get to this dyno problem?!?! im in colorado for two more weeks and ill love to see it and try to reap it ive made a similar lenght dyno in mejico its in youtube by the title  bouldering in mexico  its says that its like 2.15 m but its not correct at all its about 2. 60m!! please if some one has the info on the dyno please reply or send to my mail gabemoch@gmail.com thanks
OffLine Vanlu
  2010-05-04 16:07:18