GO TO GLOBAL SITE   se es us fr za it
de ca au no
at br ru ch
gb pl nl sk
Home | News | Videos | Articles | Gallery | Crags | Gyms | Search - Tick List | Forum | Ranking | Blogs | Contact | New Member
Forum: GLOBAL / News / Seb Bouin does Thor's Hammer which goes down to 9a Login in to contribute
Seb Bouin does Thor's Hammer which goes down to 9a
OffLine 8a.nu
  2016-07-17 00:00:00    
Fanatic Climbing reports that Seb Bouin, who has done five routes 9a to 9b the last year, has done Thor's Hammer in Flatanger which was put up by Adam Ondra as a 9a+ and which has soon many repeats lately. It took Seb five days fighting bad conditions and wet holds and he was also given a new sequence at one of the cruxes making the route 9a according Adam and Seb.
OffLine Andi Sch
  2016-07-17 11:40:58    
but he also projected it for weeks last summer...5 days this year maybe
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2016-07-17 17:20:44    
Thanks, news have been updated.
OffLine nschenks87
  2016-07-18 04:15:22    
Question (and this is not me being facetious): If a climb is downgraded because easier beta is found, could the climbers who sent the route/problem with the harder beta still say they climbed it as a 9a+ route (or whatever the original grade might have been)? Obviously the route/problem as a whole may be downgraded, but it doesn't change the fact that previous climbers sent a harder route/problem and can therefore personally claim the harder grade (say, on their 8a profile), right?
OffLine dreamingof8a
  2016-07-18 07:43:17    
nschenks87, interesting question. If you take this one step further, you can turn any 6a into an 8a by skipping holds ... I've definitely done for example 6b, feeling like climbing something much harder, simply because I missed holds or read the route wrongly. Still I only climbed a 6b route.

So yes, I'd say Adam and maybe the other repeaters climbed something as hard as 9a+, but still I'd say they only climbed a 9a route - since the "9a-Version" had always been there, they made it "artificially" harder although in this case obviously not by intention.
OffLine Tanka Rhai
  2016-07-18 11:08:38    
@dreamingof8a: I totally agree! You can't say "my ascent was one grade harder" because you were too stupid to see the jugs/the good beta... This sport IS ABOUT being able to find a solution that fits the grade (otherwise we could all just go to the gym and make stupid exercises instead of climbing outdoors). Even if someone skips an obvious jug to make a route more challenging, he/she can mention of course, but not upgrade... But on the other hand: There are defined routes/defined lines, and maybe not everybody knows that a particular line is definded... What to do than?
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2016-07-18 14:19:08    
In the history book of climbing this route stands now as 9a but it can be 9a+ again if some holds break.
OnLine Robert Busch
  2016-07-18 20:53:48    
LOL - the discussion is funny because there is no rule which says how solution is the absolutely one that fits perfect for everyone perfect. and first jens a broken hold also could make a route easier, and second it's impossible to find a evidence that every broken hold makes always a route harder.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2016-07-18 22:39:31    
I do not think this route could be 8c+ based on breaking holds but sure breaking holds can make the routes easier or harder.
OffLine nschenks87
  2016-07-19 04:51:47    
I totally agree, it's a 9a route now, especially if Adam concurs, but my question more has to do with the specific circumstances surrounding better beta. It's one thing if a route or problem is downgraded because other climbers felt it was easier than the originally proposed grade, but it is another thing (in my opinion) if the problem or route was downgraded specifically because better beta was found. My question is, since Adam didn't use the "new" beta, could he still say he climbed a route that was 9a+ difficulty (especially considering he put up the first ascent and probably knows what 9a+ is better than any other climber alive)? The route obviously now gets listed as 9a, but I mean, does anyone really go back and change their 8a scorecards when a route/problem is downgraded? If a grade is what they feel it was at the time, shouldn't they be able to say they climbed it as an 9a+ and not a 9a? 
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2016-07-19 09:10:47    
I would think Adam has been using the new beta since he is working on an extension :)
OffLine Tanka Rhai
  2016-07-19 09:21:57    
"..does anyone really go back and change their 8a scorecards when a route/problem is downgraded?.." This discussion is all just Seb's fault! A "normal" climber would just say that he could climb a 9a+ easily an not admit that he found a new beta. We should all hate Seb Bouin for being too honest for the 8a-scorecard-system... hahahaha!
OffLine CristiT
  2016-07-19 17:07:17    
Hard to belive there so many jugs on that route, even more hard to belive jugs are skipped...  A new sequence could mean many things..especially on that level. I supose the climber who said 9a feels it like that... Adam said 9a+...maybe other wil come and says 8c+ or 9b...who cares? It's a top route, and who can climb that just give what they feel...personal grade...for all the othe humans...we can only comment, and speculate... 
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2016-07-19 23:15:36    
Adam did give him the beta tips and said that it is probably 9a, according My sources.