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REM 8C+ comments by Giuliano Cameroni
OffLine 8a.nu
  2019-03-12 00:00:00    
Giuliano Cameroni has done his first two 8C+ just the last month, Poison the Well in Brione and REM in Cresciano. (c) Jimmy Webb

"REM and Poison the Well have first been tried by Dave Graham more than 10 years ago. I have never seen chalk on the REM holds, so I guess it hasn’t been tried in the last 5 years.

I started trying REM in January and it took me eight sessions to complete it. The key was the mental aspect: during the last four sessions I kept falling off the last hard move without any improvement. After that I decided to take a two weeks break from the boulder. Meanwhile, I was able to climb Poison the Well, which gave me a lot of confidence and motivation to complete REM as well.

The night of the send I was positive and didn’t feel any pressure, which allowed me to execute perfectly. Definitely felt like I was climbing in a dream! Also, this whole boulder is hands down my favorite piece of rock and the one I learned the most from."


Giuliano arrived to the boulder 23.30 and then did some easy warming up before he sent it 01.00 during the night. Video is coming up in April on Mellow.

"I warm up at the boulder, but just the minimum needed by hanging on the perfect Dreamtime holds and grabbing the crimp at 70%. It’s all about that right hand razor, so you really want your skin to be perfect and your fingers to be warm and well rested.

You need really cold conditions to hold on the right hand razor. During the day it was too warm, but at 1 AM it was dry and perfect! On REM I liked to warm up super slow and be sure I was at 100 when I gave the good try. On these kind of boulders where it all comes down to the skin, I prefer not doing too many moves in order to preserve the skin, so I mostly hang on comfortable holds or grab small crimps at 50-70%.

Grade-wise, a new beta has been found, so the difficulty still needs to be confirmed. Nonetheless it’s still one of the best and hardest lines in Ticino."
Click to Enlarge Picture
OffLine Jan V'
  2019-03-12 08:08:35    
Iď like to see these rock climbers compete (and vice versa). Would be very interesting how top rock climbers fare at the competition. Unfortunately these day's stupid boulder setting style which often differs so much from real rock climbing (and requires specific training) isn't helpful, because rock climbers are less likely to take part in competitions. That is one huge argument for coming back to more traditional boulder setting. Another reason for rock climbers less likely to take part in competitions is that stupid olympic format; besides that olympic format disadvantaged less wealthy federation and/or climbers, with some of them even forced to quit their career I fear. 
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-12 08:51:23    
I think it would be great if one more competition discipline was created. It could be redpoint bouldering trying to set up some boulders as similar to some specific outdoor problems as possible. Almost like setting up replicas so the athletes actually can go out training and send some of the hardest problems in the world, in combination to compete on them.
OffLine Jan V'
  2019-03-12 09:30:44    
@Jens no point in creating such competition, because 1) nowadays you already can train indoors on similar problem to given outdor problem anyway, so what would be point of that 2) there is always effort to create original boulder, so what why would you create competition based on copying already existing problems; climbers who already climbed that problem would have huge advantage compared to climbers who did not. And I think we don't need to create even bigger gap between more and less wealthy climbers. 3) if you want you can set replica of outdoor problem 4) probably it would cost money to create specific profiles and holds 5) what we don't need for sure is another competition very similar to already existing competition.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-12 09:39:19    
You say you want rock climbers compete against the competition climbers. My solution is to start with redpoint boulder which should be as close to outdoors as possible.

What is your solution to make Cameroni compete against the best boulderers? You know, it would not be possible to change how the normal bouldering comps will look before Tokyo 2020.
OffLine Jan V'
  2019-03-12 12:23:50    
@Jens "You say you want rock climbers compete against the competition climbers. My solution is..." ...and I explain you why I think your solution is not a good one, so there is no point in repeating things you've said previously and to which I've reacted already.

I've already proposed my solution to make rock boulderers (climbers) compete with competition boulderers and that is to set boulders differently. Clearly I don't think it's impossible to change the way how boulders are set before Tokyo 2020. Why it should be impossible?

Your solution is nonsense Jens, sorry to say that, except for arguments I've given before (which you mostly seem to ignore) there is another one big argument and that is, that competition calendar is demanding enough these days for adding yet another competitions, which I think we might agree on that. It relates to money issue, too. Your way would only wealthiest competitors/federations take part. Maybe you don't mind that, but for me solutions that excludes some competitors based on money issue that is no solution. Some climbers heve troubles to fetch enough money even these days, some even don't manage that. Don't see why one would prefer solution making this gap even wider above another solution.
OffLine bomberone
  2019-03-12 12:45:35    
i appreciate, that some climbers don´t go for the olympics.
great to see, that guys like camaroni, webb, nalle, daniel, graham and others push the limits in climbing by beeing on the search an sending hard problems.this is real.
and not in the olympic sellout, in which format ever.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-12 13:09:24    
We have seen a very strong trend towards setting boulders which do not have anything at all in common with outdoors, i.e. parkour boulders. To say that the solution is to reverse this trend going back to crimpers etc is just impossible. La Sportiva Legends and also other comps show that redpoint boulder comps are possible.
OffLine Thomas Salakenos
  2019-03-12 17:14:18    
So funny ! Guiliano is a wizard outside, but a weak bastard in gym boulders ! I swear You do not want to see him compete with insiders ahahahah !
OffLine Jan V'
  2019-03-13 08:55:42    
@Jens do you even read what others post? I'll quote myself - "Unfortunately these day's stupid boulder setting style which often differs so much from real rock climbing (and requires specific training) isn't helpful" - and that is from my first post. Clearly I am aware how boulders are set. So you are redundantly repating some informations, while, on the other hand, you are avoiding to answer really simple put question. Please answer my question. I don't need you to repeat how boulders are set.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-13 09:40:52    
@Jan: You want the route setting in comps should be more like outdoors which will increase the possibility for the rock climbers to compete.

I say that we have seen a strong trend for the opposite, i.e. indoors getting further away from outdoors. With climbing becoming Olympic, there is no way, we will go backwards in the WC events with, what the mainstream will think, boring crimping problems.

I say that one possibly solution is to create another discipline, i.e. redpoint bouldering on possible more like replicas of (local) classical problems. This means that after the comp, the guys can go out and send it. You say you do not like that idea.

What is the question I should answer?
OffLine Jan V'
  2019-03-13 10:26:58    
@Jens :) what's wrong with you? Can you not read and find that question, instead of useless repeating of previously stated things?
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-13 11:09:45    
I have told you that there is a strong trend towards going away from "rock-climbing" route setting and instead going for parkour etc. As climbing goes Olympic and mainstream, this means the route setting will even more be adjusted to make a great show for the non-climbers.

The biggest change with route setting is all the volumes. Outdoors, we almost never climb on such features. To say that we should go back means that most of the volumes and big holds should go away. Clearly you understand that we would not see an Olympic final with mainly small holds on crimpers.

Indoor climbing is in a constant development and even easier problems are nowadays created with bigger holds. The small hold era is gone beside the Moon board etc which more should be considered a training tool... nothing where the Olympic final could take place :)
OffLine Jan V'
  2019-03-13 12:22:59    
@Jens "I have told you that there is a strong trend towards going away from "rock-climbing" route setting and instead going for parkour etc." - Yep, you've told me thing I wrote about as soon as my first post. Well thank you for telling me what I obviuosly already knew; stop trying to smash down open door and try to begin to use your brain.

---

Well, I am quite sure climbing wasn't included to Olympics because of parkour style boulders.

"To say that the solution is to reverse this trend going back to crimpers etc is just impossible" - well I've never said climbing should be all about crimpers. This is discussion faul from you. I've never said volumes shouldn't be used, too.

As far as I know most of the people don't like parkour style boulders and slabs, too. So much for that.

Volumes aren't the biggest change, they've always been there, albeit not in such amount. I don't see problems in volumes, similar things you find on the rocks, too. Small holds are still commonplace.

Meanwhile, after many needless words from you, but you've failed to answer simple question, so please answer that question. I am asking you: why is impossible to change the style boulders are set before Tokyo 2020?
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-13 12:39:06    
I think it is impossible to reverse things and start making boulders that looks more similar to outdoors, in order to attract the rock boulderers. The reason why the boulders of today differs so much from outdoors is because most climbers think modern route setting is much more fun to watch. When all non-climbers are coming in, there will be even more crazy bouldering going on.

The route setters, the organization and the spectators want as spectacle show as possible. IFSC are looking for media interest which will create media. IFSC will never say that let us go back and start setting up boulders that the rock climbers like as this will be less interesting for the mainstream. Sometimes it is too spectacle but this is the way almost all want it too be. Another reason for this is that the Olympics takes place in Tokyo. The Japanese guys almost only train indoor. They will make sure that the boulders of the future look like how they are training indoors.
OffLine Jan V'
  2019-03-13 13:03:49    
"The reason why the boulders of today differs so much from outdoors is because most climbers think modern route setting is much more fun to watch." - no true IMHO. Climbers and mainstream both dislike parkour setting. That means parkours are not spectacle as you think. So much for that. So, at the end, it show up that it's possible to change boulder setting. Case closed :)

P.S. please, next time don't make it apper that your personal opinion is a fact. And next bother to read properly. Thank you.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-13 13:32:40    
As moving away from rock climbing look alike boulders have been very strong trend for several years. It seems the climbing community think it is more fun to watch. The IFSC live-streaming has much higher numbers on bouldering.

If climbers and mainstream dislike parkour setting, why do you think this is the biggest success for IFSC? Why do you think that the numbers of participators have gone up in bouldering more than in lead?
OffLine Henning Wang
  2019-03-14 13:35:09    
I´v yet to meet and talk to someone that finds watching slab boulders in comps more entertaining then watching classic steep power problems, be that on small or big holds. Yet there is barely any steep walls left, and slabs are in every single comp..

Climbing, and especially indoors bouldering, is in huge growth all over the world. That more people watch and compete in these comps is just as likely a natural consequence of that growth, not the setting.
I would argue that more people would compete (and probably watch) if they changed the setting back from the utter shit that is now to real climbing again.. I think most climbers would agree that they would rather watch who was strong then who could balance best? I also think most athletes would like to be somehow rewarded for all their physical training, not just get shut down standing in awkward positions with no handholds slipping of useless footholds..

I`m not going to say for the world cups, but for local and national comps, bouldering is a lot more fun and enjoyable then lead.
Lead is a huge amount of waiting around, much harder to warm-up for, and then very stressful when you finally get to climb. In bouldering you get to climb a lot more, you usually wait a lot less, warming up is fairly easy, and the stress level is, for the average climber atleast, much lower.
OffLine Jan V'
  2019-03-14 15:14:43    
@Jens "As moving away from rock climbing look alike boulders have been very strong trend for several years. It seems the climbing community think it is more fun to watch. The IFSC live-streaming has much higher numbers on bouldering." - Well, few years ago there have been no live streams, so what you say literally makes no sense. Any plus number is 100% bigger than zero, right? :)

"If climbers and mainstream dislike parkour setting, why do you think this is the biggest success for IFSC? Why do you think that the numbers of participators have gone up in bouldering more than in lead?" - How do you know parkour is the biggest success for IFSC? I mean, you base your claim on your statement that number od viewers on live stream grew. That might be wrong premise though. From the top of my head I can name few factors that would explain that growth that have nothing to do with parkours. I'll name them: 1. probably most importantly - number of people doing bouldering worldwide is growing, so naturally number of IFSC live stream viewers is growing. It's VERY IMPORTANT to realize that in most normal gyms there are no parkour boulders so likely worldwide success of bouldering has nothing to do with parkour style boulders! 2. bouldering is here for a lot shorter time so it's still growing in faster rate than lead climbing 3. live streaming is here just for the short time so if show is good it's only natural that number of viewers grow with time because you need some time to spread a word. Actually it seems that boulders that were set like 5 or 4 years ago were ok fun because they've started to attract viewers. If they were boring maybe we would have these days even less spectators than at the beginning. 4. more people worldwide have internet connection/fast enough connection.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-14 16:20:37    
My higher number in Boulder live-streamings in comparison to Lead.

You can of course argue and say that going back to old-school bouldering would be better for the athletes and the spectators. It is just natural that some think so but we can see that the bouldering sport is growing and I think is partly because of the new school bouldering. O the other hand, although this success, you think IFSC are dead wrong :)

If we take it from the non-climbers perspective it most be clear that these guys would prefer watching guys jumping a run in comparison using small crimpers. Sport is about creating a show and clearly parkour setting must be the way forward. I am in constant contact with coaches and athletes and in general they like parkour style a lot.

What do you base your opinion on that you think old-school setting was better for the sport?
OffLine Jan V'
  2019-03-14 16:38:21    
@Jens "My higher number in Boulder live-streamings in comparison to Lead." - yeah, and?

"O the other hand, although this success, you think IFSC are dead wrong :)" - What? No, I don't. Read twice.

"What do you base your opinion on that you think old-school setting was better for the sport? - never said that. Oh, man...could you actually try to listen to what people tell instead of just repeating your mantra?

---

Since your reaction makes no sense in the context you've had to miss my previous reaction and Henning Wang's too (or you have not very good English - if so, than get someone who speaks better English to translate for you), so I'll copy and paste mine:

"As moving away from rock climbing look alike boulders have been very strong trend for several years. It seems the climbing community think it is more fun to watch. The IFSC live-streaming has much higher numbers on bouldering." - Well, few years ago there have been no live streams, so what you say literally makes no sense. Any plus number is 100% bigger than zero, right? :)

"If climbers and mainstream dislike parkour setting, why do you think this is the biggest success for IFSC? Why do you think that the numbers of participators have gone up in bouldering more than in lead?" - How do you know parkour is the biggest success for IFSC? I mean, you base your claim on your statement that number od viewers on live stream grew. That might be wrong premise though. From the top of my head I can name few factors that would explain that growth that have nothing to do with parkours. I'll name them: 1. probably most importantly - number of people doing bouldering worldwide is growing, so naturally number of IFSC live stream viewers is growing. It's VERY IMPORTANT to realize that in most normal gyms there are no parkour boulders so likely worldwide success of bouldering has nothing to do with parkour style boulders! 2. bouldering is here for a lot shorter time so it's still growing in faster rate than lead climbing 3. live streaming is here just for the short time so if show is good it's only natural that number of viewers grow with time because you need some time to spread a word. Actually it seems that boulders that were set like 5 or 4 years ago were ok fun because they've started to attract viewers. If they were boring maybe we would have these days even less spectators than at the beginning. 4. more people worldwide have internet connection/fast enough connection.
OffLine Jan V'
  2019-03-16 08:57:33    
@Jens of course, no reaction. could I expect anything else? Your usual strategy when your flimsy logic crumbles down.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-16 18:36:59    
I am sorry that you do not understand how I try to explain it. Possibly you can explain why you think it would be more interesting to watch the bouldering final in Tokyo based on more old school rock climbing setting? Why do you think all the route setters that have created the trend with parkour setting have been wrong?
OffLine Jan V'
  2019-03-21 09:04:36    
@Jens Larssen is this a bad joke? Or you can't read anymore? I DO UNDERSTAND your point, however YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND me, in fact it looks like you DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND English language - that's why I've invited you to find yourself a translator - that wasn't sarcasm, I meant it. I've already gave you answers on your questions. On the contrary you NEVER answer SINGLE QUESTION. Isn't it a bit unfair? Moreover you are deliberately distorting things.

You've failed to react to my arguments, you've failed to react on Henning Wang, in fact you've ignored Henning Wang completely. Are you doing this on intentionally? Are you trolling on you own site? Because it looks so.

Ok , I've made a mistake to try to have a discussion with you, which wass really dumb decision, because discussion with you is impossible and I fear everybody, or almost everybody on this site knows that.