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Forum: GLOBAL / News / Charles Albert opens 9A in Font barefoot Login in to contribute
Charles Albert opens 9A in Font barefoot
OffLine 8a.nu
  2019-01-17 00:00:00    
Grimper reports that Charles Albert has made the FA of a 9A in Fontainebleau. "Mowgli" stopped using shoes some five years ago and says the biggest problem is that you have to rest more in order for the toe skin to recover.

Video from last year when he got close. Previously he has done a handful 8C's and one 8C+ in Fontainebleau, out of which several unrepeated.
OffLine The Whistleblower 6
  2019-01-18 07:23:30    
FYI: the name of the climb is ”No Kpote only”
OffLine Joakim Thommesen
  2019-01-18 13:39:39    
#lamename #greateffort
OffLine Christian Mengel
  2019-01-18 19:39:05    
Potentially really hard but by no means comparable to Burden of Dreams!
Nice line on a clean bloc in the woods vs something soiled in graffiti with a chipped outro...
I admire the trying hard part in this but nothing would make me want to climb this, even if I was strong enough...
OffLine Opi Brey
  2019-01-18 22:18:49    
A guy who hasn't done any 8c or c+ out of font, maybe not even many 8b+.
Even in his homecrag Font, few of the hardes't pieces he didn' get yet.
Proposing 9a...
Sounds cool
OffLine Hendrik de Lede
  2019-01-18 22:25:20    
OffLine Jean-Baptiste Jourjon
  2019-01-19 00:15:25    
Yeah, like so much people talking about what they don’t know to criticise the climber and the problem.
Let’s wait for repetitors. When you live in Font no real need to spoil CO2 to climb away.
He his who he is, his proposal is not the most beautiful but possibly the hardest. He is on another planet and it seems to be disturbing for some of you.
OffLine Sebastian Peace
  2019-01-19 07:22:00    
(Hard) boulders don't have to be beautiful. The best moves can sometimes be found in the most ugly looking boulders or routes, so don't judge a book by it's cover. Congrats to Charles for pushing the limits in this beautiful forest that totaly makes up for the ugly graffiti :) I don't say that nobody should discuss about the looks of the boulder but I don't think this should be the main topic of this dicussion. Maybe. For the grade ... well, we will have to wait what others think to be "sure" but props to Charles for having no fear to propose said grade and for believing in his skills.
OffLine JBee
  2019-01-19 07:56:47    
A guy we don't know if he can differ between a 6c and a 8a Fontainebleau Boulder, maybe not even any Boulder in Fontainebleu, because maybe he hasn't been there yet.
Talking about a guy who is one of the most innovative protagonists out there and a great enrichment for the sport.
Sounds like a steaming pile of sh...! Right, Opi? ;)
OffLine Urs Schmincke
  2019-01-19 08:17:54    

You are really misinformed. Charles of course has done 8c outside of Bleau. He did "Monkey Wedding" (8c) in Rocklands.
OffLine paulo
  2019-01-19 08:56:50    
Jimmy Webb is in town and he has already repeated Charles Albert "Belial". Let's wait if he's going to try this new beast by Charles.
OffLine rai
  2019-01-19 11:27:25    
@Jean-Baptiste: I cannot agree more with you. Haters are coming out while Charles is rising. The French rock climbing scene is not dead and it’s very inspiring in these times of plastic... Super congratulations to Charles who is not only super strong but has a mind-blowing climbing style.
OffLine JLH
  2019-01-19 12:18:43    
Font is not an obscure, local area, so "only in Font" speaks in favor not against someone's believe it's a fair proposal.
But as in all cases, wait for repeaters' proposals of the grade. My five cents is Kapote is 'more' 9A than Kryptos is 8C ;)
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-19 14:46:18    
I do like the no shoe approach and most probably some of the hardest future boulders will be done with one foot. Albert clearly has the 9A strength and technique but the boulder seems a bit constructed as it seems more natural to start three moves in.

It is similar to add sit starts to routes in order to create 9b. I am sure there exist several 8C's where you could add some moves in order to raise the grade...
OffLine paulo
  2019-01-19 15:26:40    
I do not agree. From the video the start seems logical (a sitstart), if you start 3 moves in I bet it's no more a sitstart.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-19 15:39:48    
I have confirmed that it is possible and more logical to start sitting three moves in.
OffLine Federico Trespiernas
  2019-01-19 16:16:46    
Hendrik de Lede, awesome, thanks for the link.
The smoothest ascensión I've seen of Monkey Wedding, where I've seen top boulderers with shoes struggling to go up.
Dude has four hands!
OffLine paulo
  2019-01-20 07:59:16    
Jens, look at the video at minute 7:56.. I think that position is not reachable seated without piling crash pads.. For me, he starts in a obvious position with a obvious jug. The problem of the logical / illogical start is an opinion (yours)..
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-20 11:09:26    
As I said above. I have been informed that it is possible to start sitting from one hand in the 7.56 position you are referring to. Charles added some moves in order to increase the difficulty creating the world's hardest graded boulder problem. I have further more been told that it is probably at the most 8C+ from that 7.56 position.
OffLine Federico Trespiernas
  2019-01-20 12:19:10    
Obviously, adding a sit start to a boulder is done to add more moves / difficulty.
So the logical thing to do is to enter sitting as far / down as possible.
As it is obvious that it can be done from where Charles chooses, it would be absurd to start three or four movements higher, as Jens proposes.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-20 13:25:50    
You missunderstand. I have been told that it is a perfect sitstart three three moves in.

But Charles did choose to add three traverse moves in order to increase the difficulty to 9A.
OffLine Jason Crank
  2019-01-20 15:23:17    
The line appears to be a sit-start extension to the "Squat Start" line shown by Nalle and others about 12min into this Chad Greedy video. That said, I have no idea what that line was called, but I know Chad and others are on here and can comment?

OffLine Jason Crank
  2019-01-20 15:23:20    
OffLine Bart van Raaij
  2019-01-20 16:11:33    
The original problem on this boulder is the one shown in Chad’s video, link in Jason’s Message. This problem is called ‘Roche Acléaude’ or ‘Gaia’. Several videos of this problem can be found on YouTube and Vimeo. Besides the version shown in the video there is a logical but painful harder sit start and an easier stand start. I never published the problems on this boulder on Bleau.info and in my guidebook because an ancient stone hut was destroyed before these problems could be opened. It is not clear wether this hut was destroyed by climbers to ‘create’ a boulder suitable for climbing, or it was destroyed by vandals and climbers found it afterwards. There are at least five other independant problems on this boulder. Somebody tagged it. There are also some old inscriptions. Somebody damaged some of the holds after these problems were opened. The problems are not ‘chipped’, they were almost ‘destroyed’. The damage was probably done by someone who is angry about the destroyed hut.

Charles’ harder variant is a sit start to the left of ‘Gaia’ and it finishes as ‘Gaia’. It’s not a real ‘straight up’, not a ‘real’ traverse either. This very hard problem will draw a lot of attention to this boulder and we might publish about it on Bleau.info now. I think climbers should be informed about the situation. Because it’s one of the hardest problems in the world and because of its history. There is a chance though the person who damaged some of the holds will return and destroy some more...
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-20 17:06:16    
thanks for the info Bart. What do you mean by a sitstart of what Hukkataival did in the video? It seems Nalle starts almost at the ground and the nearest sitstart should be like three moves in, in Albert's 9A? Could you also please include some links to the other videos :)
OffLine rai
  2019-01-20 17:25:31    
The funny thing Jens is that even with evidence you keep hammering your own view, and this is quite boring... Why don’t you just limit yourself to congratulate Charles instead of being not opportunisticly downgrading the performance with sone kind of nasty consideration...? Bare also in mind that you initially limited yourself to copy and paste an info that was on Grimper site since more than 24:00 ago without adding any value, and now nearly criticising...
OffLine Federico Trespiernas
  2019-01-20 18:11:17    
OK, Jens, then, according to your criteria, Charles should have thought:

"hmm, there could be a 9A starting sitting from here, but I'm not going to do it, because there's another sit start three moves ahead"

Forgive me if, speaking of boulders, I have more confidence in the criteria of one of the strongest boulderers in the world, before yours.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-20 19:26:13    
I like that Charles did try to create the maximum difficulty by adding three extra moves but I consider this more like a constructed problem instead of a boulder.

It is gradewise, the hardest problem in the world but I do not think it is the hardest graded boulder. I am sure, many boulders graded 8C could be added lower or traverse starts and they would also be harder. In the same way, I would not say that a 9A+ eliminate would be considered the hardest boulder in the world.
OffLine Bart van Raaij
  2019-01-20 20:02:56    
This is another link to an ascent of ‘Gaia’ aka ‘La Roche Acléaude’: https://vimeo.com/141639813. First the stand start which is about 7c+ (or 8a according to others) and second the crouching start which is about 8a+. As you can see the climber places his heel hook before he starts and his bum is not on the ground as he starts. So no real sit start. The real sit start is about 8b. The crouching (or squat start as others say) and the sit start are a little to the right of ‘Gaia’. In Chads’ video, both Nalle and Olivier do/try the crouching start. The sit is almost the same, it starts with the same holds but you have to perform an extra move to place te right heel. I have seen a Vimeo video of this proper sit start but it’s not public on the internet. Both starts have nothing to do with the 9a sit start far to the left. I have no idea about other possible positions to start sitting in Charles’ problem because I have not checked his problem yet. Neither did I receive first hand information.
OffLine rai
  2019-01-20 20:43:06    
@Jens, you remember: a piece of rock and a climber, the definition of "free climbing", left, right, up & down, and a difficulty proposal, like hundreds of boulders around the world; the "constructed problem" is your own interpretation...
OnLine nschenks87
  2019-01-20 20:59:52    
Jens, to me "boulder problem" and "problem" are interchangeable. I think trying to make a distinction between "boulder" and "problem" is kind of ridiculous. While there is something to be said for pure, natural lines, bouldering originated to test limits and try hard moves. Adding difficulty, while perhaps contrived, is part of bouldering. To me, bouldering is as much about the movement as it is about the "purity" of a line. Sure, the "boulder problem" Charles Albert put up may be a bit contrived and the graffiti isn't pleasant to looks at, but the fact is he saw a problem that added difficulty and what looks to me to be some quite amazing movement. To say that is any less of a boulder than a pure line is, in my mind, disrespectful to the ascentionist. A line is a line, no matter how contrived it may be. After all, isn't bouldering just a contrived way to get on top of a large rock?

Case in point: there is a boulder problem at a local crag that adds a 5 move traverse into a classic stand start arete. It may be constructed, as you would say, but it is considered one of the best of its grade in the whole region, simply because the movement is world class. Constructed? Sure. Still a boulder problem? Absolutely. Bouldering is different for everybody. Don't forget that movement and difficulty are just as important (or moreso) to many climbers than the aesthetics or "purity" of a line. It does suck that No Kpote Only is chipped, but it's not like Charles chipped it. And the lower section looks pretty pure to me.

(TLDR: ALL boulder problems are constructed!)
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-20 21:38:32    
Thanks Bart :)

I have been told that the sit start to the left would possibly be 8C+ as it is the two first moves going into the crouch start that is the business.

Based on rai and nschenk8a logic, we could in the future see the first 9A+ in the world by downclimbing an eliminate chipped boulder or where do you draw the line? I think we should value quality over quantity.
OffLine Jason Crank
  2019-01-21 01:02:26    
If we're going to deduct quality for low altitude traverses, pretty much all the boulders in Hollow Mountain Cave are out, Ondras Terranova and Drift are out, Drop a Line is out, even TSOTW is an extension to another problem.
OnLine nschenks87
  2019-01-21 04:39:38    
That's the whole point--there is no arbitrary "line"! I'm not saying quality shouldn't be valued over quantity, but I AM saying that quality is very dependent on the climber. Some climbers don't care if a boulder looks terrible or is in a not great location: if the climbing is beautiful and difficult, maybe that's enough. Quality is important, sure, but you tell Charles Albert his climb isn't "quality" by your definition. Maybe to him, the difficulty and movement were as quality as they come.

Also, sure, if someone wants to down climb an eliminate, go for it. As I said before, bouldering is contrived anyway, so who cares how the problem is climbed as long as it's done cleanly and without altering the boulder? Maybe an eliminate isn't the best to view for us and the media, but that shouldn't diminish the accomplishment.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-21 07:49:00    
”Maybe an eliminate isn't the best to view for us and the media, but that shouldn't diminish the accomplishment.”

I do think that media are allowed to draw the line somewhere what should be considered the hardest graded boulder in the world. What if you actually chip a boulder based on your size and then eliminate all natural holds?

It is a very delicate to decide where to draw the line but we have to do it. Another example for me is the 8C+ that started laying down instead of sitting. When it comes to routes, the media has also somewhat excluded one 9b.

Once again. Super impressive by Charles who is my first contendor to open the first 9A+ Boulder if he starts using one shoe but it should not be eleminating his 9A or starting further to the left laying down.
OffLine Vincent Bouillot
  2019-01-21 08:33:37    
Drawing the line is not that hard. A ton of comments comes to my mind but I'll give you a few.

Boulderers are attracted to beautiful logical (i.e. that makes sense) lines, not weird eliminates on chipped holds. No boulderers will claim a 9B because he climbed Charles' line to the undercling, then downclimbed to the beginning of Nalle's problem starting right and then climbed the line to the top. Because, this is not a logical line by any means. Some people have their own logic (sit start of sport climbs) but this is still logic.

By the way, the first 9A is not "Burden of Dreams". It is probably Fou Rire : https://bleau.info/cretesud/21150.html ... But it is a traverse and Jean-Pierre Bouvier never claimed having done the first 9A boulder ever.

Looking at the facts and the video, Charles couldn't have started more to the left. There are no holds more to the left. His bum is clearly starting from the ground so yes, it's a valid sit start and there are no crouch start possible. Then, he traverses a little to the right and joins Gaia using a completely different sequence. Sounds legit to me.
You said: "yes but there's a traverse at the beginning, it's not straight up". I will mention that "The Big Island sit-start" is also quite similar. You sit start in a dark corner and then you traverse into the stand start. Maybe it is even more logical to start a few moves in, like what you suggested for Charles' boulder? Then, following your logic, The Big Island sit-start is not a pure line and it should be discarded as one of the hardest boulder problem in the world. Jimmy & co, sorry.

As a side note. My local project (roughly 8B) is on a tagged boulder with chipped holds 5 minutes away from home. What do I see in it? Beautiful moves and an intellectual challenge (trying to understand the many cruxes). I don't see the tags anymore: I see a gem in the middle of a field.
OffLine paulo
  2019-01-21 08:48:19    
Even with further explanations, I continue to not see Jens'point. For me, Charles'problem is a far left sitstart to "Gaia" and it's a logical line. In Varazze, "Gioia" is a far left squat start that traverses the boulder and exits with "Excalibur" far right (see video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fezk14WH3jI ). So, even Gioia in your logic is not a "real boulder problem"? Second, how can you say that starting 3 moves in is "only 8C+"?? I climb 8A boulder at my max and I can't even imagine how a 8C+ boulder feels, and the difference between 8C+ and 9A.. Science fiction..
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-21 08:55:28    
Vincent you seems to miss that there a perfect sitstart 2-3 moves in of Charles 9A. He just added these 2-3 moves to make it a harder challenge and sure this is great as your chipped problem. But personally I would not count your chipped boulder a 9A+ if you eliminated or chopped some holds. Then you can go indoors and do the first 9B.

I do not understand what you say about The Big Island. I think it is perfectly ok and logical to make a sitstart and then continuing diagonal to the stand start. What I would not consider a boulder would be if somebody did The Superbig Island by adding some traverse to the sitstart or even adding a down climb to the sitstart.

We have to draw the line somewhere and surely, many different opinions are valid :)
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-21 08:55:31    
@ Paulo: You seems to missunderstand. I have been told that if you start three moves in on the logical sitstart, it is probably 8C+.

Charles has added a 3 move sitstart traverse into the logical sitstart. This is perfectly fine but and very impressive but it also makes it a traverse which we normally do not call a boulder. As it has been said above, there also exist a 9A traverse in Font previously but that is not counted as a boulder.
OffLine Leon du Toit
  2019-01-21 09:24:02    
Two things:
1. Charles Albert is a true inspiration. Amazing ascent.
2. This forum wonderfully illustrates that the internet is made of shit. I cannot for the life of me understand how this accomplishment can generate so much negativity, not least from the site's editor. Good grief.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-21 09:42:15    
I have for many years given Charles Albert credit and said that this is part of the future. I have said that he is the first contender for setting up a 9A+. I have said that anybody is allowed to create whatever challenge they want. Charles Albert is a true hero.

Beside that I ask some ethical questions which I think is interesting for the community. We have had the exact same thing in regards routes.

Please check the video once more. Charles could have started at least one more move to the left and then it might have been a 9A+ challenge. This would also be amazing but should that then be the first 9A+ boulder in the world.
OffLine Tuf La
  2019-01-21 10:04:43    
Jesus Jens, not again... taking a stance on the definition of a boulder you have never seen, at a level of difficulty so high that you have no idea what it represents, and climbed by a person you have never talked to. And trying to convince the rest of the world that your opinion is THE correct one.

Watching Charles climbing is unreal. It motivates me, feeds my love for climbing, and makes me want to go to Fontainebleau and try my own project. You, Jens, make me want to put my chalk bag and climbing shoes in the trash can, and quit climbing.

This entire discussion about starting position, difficulty and finding an absolute definition of what should be a boulder is ridiculous. I bet Charles is laughing in disbelief reading some of the comments here.
OffLine Tuf La
  2019-01-21 10:04:47    
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-21 10:28:52    
I base my comments on two guys having told me that you can start sitting two moves in, in another sitstart and then it would probably 8C+. I base my opinion on that Charles actually start with a diagonally down climbing move. In the first move he is doing, his right hand moves like 30 cm down...
OffLine Jo Scha
  2019-01-21 10:52:43    
Since when traverses doesn't count as boulders... Wtf!?
The Boulder starts at the first possible point in the crack, which is the obvius Line. Starting 3 moves in would be contra the natural line.
Please stop anoying the Community with your nonsens Jens!!!11!
OffLine rai
  2019-01-21 11:09:10    
@Jens: "Based on rai and nschenk8a logic, we could in the future see the first 9A+ in the world by downclimbing an eliminate chipped boulder or where do you draw the line?".
Please see someone to cure you being stubborn like a donkey and grab the occasion to take some English lessons also because (a) you don't fully comprehend what you reed and (b) you are reinterpreting the whole way.

Let me try to explain my though in poor words my own words:
1) on one side a piece of rock
2) on the other a climber
3) the climber sees the piece of rock and would like to climb on it
4) in the mind of the climber some options are coming alive (no eliminations, no chipped holds), trying to win the challenge (problem if you want), that the piece of rock has to offer.
5) the piece of rock does not always allows you to go straight up from the ground, because in some parts there are no holds (and the cool climber does not want to chip holds, nor to eliminate), so in order to progress, he sometimes has to traverse or down climb (even in the Dawn Wall or in the famous Big Ben in La Turbie), even from the start.

The search for more difficulty is the essence of rock climbing and mostly everyone in the post has tried (in vain) to demonstrate you that there are many boulder problems that have been imagined with links (idem for sport climbing BTW), so if Charles wants to start 2 or 3 moves left on the boulder to draw a harder line, if someone in the future would be able to add 2 traverse move into Burden to make it 9A+, what's your fucking problem Jens...??? Create useless polemics to have someone participating to your forum...?
OffLine User Deactivated
  2019-01-21 11:12:30    
It is next to impossible to identify one's own retardedness if one is enough of a retard. Hence why Jens will never understand other opinions than his own...
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-21 11:21:33    
You seem to missunderstand.

You can start wherever you like and create any challenges you like and grade it as you like. Charles is super impressive and had added a new thing in climbing using no shoes. He is working on another super hard problem that might also be 9A.

I have been told by two climbers that Charles added the two moves in order to create a 9A. For me, I think it is questionable, if we should say that the hardest graded boulder in the world should start with a down climbing traverse move. For me this is a constructed problem, likewise impressive, but not with the same ethical standard as Burden of Dreams. I guess I am allowed to have that opinion and you are surely allowed to forward your...but please write in a constructive and polite way.

I guess everyone would have their personal view of when to draw a line when a boulder is to constructed to be called a boulder and instead be called a boulder problem.

What is somebody put up an eliminated chipped traverse going up and down calling it 9A+. Do you still think it would be celebrated as the world's hardest boulder?
OffLine Jo Scha
  2019-01-21 11:26:47    
He is not downclimbing - ist's a traverse! And climbing without shoes is not new! Please just shut the f... up!
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-21 11:30:35    
The first hold he reaches is like 30 cm meter below the starting position...

I have several times credited Charles for his innovation and I think he is the first contender to do 9A+ if he started using one shoe :)
OffLine paulo
  2019-01-21 11:42:21    
OffLine paulo
  2019-01-21 11:44:30    
In a climb, you can take a hold that is lower than the previous.. that's the case of underclings or a hold on the side.. that progression prepares you for going up or laterally, or both. Taking a hold lower than the previous it's not downclimbing!

What I can understand from this discussion is that 2 guys told you that thing of 3 moves in and the 8c+ "version".. and you trust your sources.. I can understand it.

But, as far as I know, these guys do not have repeated the problem, not even in the "3 moves in" version, so they can only be envious of the Charles performance. In conclusion, can you make the names of these guys? Or they can speak for themselves.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-21 12:47:49    
You have misunderstood. What is important is that these guys have told me that you can start two moves in sitting instead of beginning further to the left, climbing diagonally down.

There already exist a 9a traverse in Font but that is not considered a boulder. It is called a traverse.
OffLine Jo Scha
  2019-01-21 13:27:35    
He is climbing diagonally up an it is not downclimbing... Also a traverse is a boulder and please stop deleting posts! It is finally time to leave 8a.nu
OffLine User Deactivated
  2019-01-21 14:14:02    
you seem to misunderstand, you seem to have misunderstood,you seem to misunderstand, you seem to have misunderstood,you seem to misunderstand, you seem to have misunderstood,you seem to misunderstand, you seem to have misunderstood,you seem to misunderstand, you seem to have misunderstood,you seem to misunderstand, you seem to have misunderstood,you seem to misunderstand, you seem to have misunderstood,vyou seem to misunderstand, you seem to have misunderstood,
OffLine User Deactivated
  2019-01-21 14:15:16    
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-01-21 14:36:46    
Please read and follow the 8a forum ethics. I have asked a question if Charles 9A should be consider the hardest graded boulder in the world. It seems most think I am wrong but please except that also I can have an opinion. I will leave the discussion now. I guess many will try to repeat it and let us see what these guys think.

Once again, please use a respectful tone if you want to discuss the subject any further.
OffLine User Deactivated
  2019-01-21 14:55:38    
OffLine JLH
  2019-01-21 15:11:30    
"There already exist a 9a traverse in Font but that is not considered a boulder. It is called a traverse."

I'm glad, you finally realise the difference between up and trav. problems. But why do you ignore this fact in your 'ranking game'? You assign same points (1300) for Burden of dreams 9A as you do for Fou rire aller/retour 9A trav. :P
OffLine rai
  2019-01-21 15:31:25    
@Jens: "Please read and follow the 8a forum ethics. I have asked a question if Charles 9A should be consider the hardest graded boulder in the world. It seems most think I am wrong but please except that also I can have an opinion. I will leave the discussion now. I guess many will try to repeat it and let us see what these guys think. Once again, please use a respectful tone if you want to discuss the subject any further".
Jens: (1) you have asked a question the has evolved on a criticism of an outstanding performance (not very nice), and further on you have questioned ALL the answers by "you have misunderstood", to all the points of views different than yours. Do you seriously think that your opinion is superior to the people who are adding contents...???; (2) you have made very questionable statement (criticism) based on gossip (as Paulo quotes, and I agree), that has no consensus despite your heavy hammering. Charles has added a few MOVES to make a longer/harder version of an existing LINE on a boulder, call it as you want but this is like it is in the eyes of the community and a proposal that will be confirmed or not with 0, 1 or 2 shoes (LOL)... (3) you are talking about WHAT??? RESPECT??? Then start to be behave as an example to all the people who are losing their time adding quality content, opinions, point of views, etc... to have the same answer on and on: “you have misunderstood”...
In the meantime GRIMPER, which is an established climbing media has issued an interview about Giuliano Cameroni who is also projecting No Kpote with no such questions in mind. Congrats again to Charles and I hope that Giuliano will repeat.
OffLine austin howell
  2019-01-22 20:59:08    
Whelp, glad that's settled. Apparently adding moves is contrived.

Guess we better toss out all the sit starts as it'd be more logical to start standing since we came into the crag walking on our own two feet.

Either that or someone will inevitably Sit-Start "Silence" for the first 9c+
OffLine Jason Crank
  2019-01-22 22:00:23    
Outta my way, I gotta go sit-start the Dawn Wall and show Tommy what's what.
OffLine JLH
  2019-01-23 10:44:53    
>Either that or someone will inevitably Sit-Start "Silence" for the first 9c+

Adding top out will make it first 10a in history :D

Sorry we lost valuable commentators.
@Hans Markus contact me, if you need copy of your scorecard.
OffLine rai
  2019-01-23 17:13:26    
Thanks Lucien Martinez for making the point on the 8a/No KPote only affair on GRIMPER:


Here's the translation for the non French speakers (for the pictures please look in the link above):
"Logically, the announcement of a proposal in 9A boulder has caused many reactions on the web. It has been read, particularly on the specialized media 8a.nu, that the line of No Kpote Only (9A) was built artificially for the sole purpose of increasing the difficulty of the block. The argument is based on the existence of a possible more direct seated start to remove the first three movements of the version climbed by Charles. Then there was talk of "eliminating", "crossing", block that is not one, in short, clarification is needed.

No Kpote Only is located in the area of ​​Rocher Brûlé, in a large overhang boulder with several lines. The main line is called Gaia, it's a 7C (or 7C +) that starts up on two obvious undercuts. The grade goes up to 8A+ with a sit start very slightly on the right. Charles 9A starts sitting on the left, about 2m from the main line. In 5 movements, he joins the undercut at the start of the 7C. In 7 more movements, you are at the top of the block. In no case this passage can be qualified as eliminating or traverse; no hold is prohibited and the block has 12 movements including 5 hard.

The more interesting question is that of the logic of the line. It is actually possible to make a seated start (about 1.5m to the right of No Kpote Only) which removes the first three movements.

Charles' extension would then have no other logic than that of increasing the difficulty?

In fact, as shown in the photo above (go to the link), a small crack clearly indicates the line taken by the 9A. You can also see the starting point: a straight crimp and ideally obvious for a sit start.

Knowing which is the most logical line is a debate that Charles had with other climbers who found the direct (a probable 8C +) more obvious. But this was not of his opinion because of this crack which clearly marks a line ...

So, to summarize, no, Charles' 9A is not an eliminator and yes, it is a block designed and climbed in the rules of art. On the other hand, is it the most logical and pure line? Everyone has the opportunity to get an opinion on the matter".
OffLine rai
  2019-01-23 17:15:48    
@Jens: would you be so kind to copy the image (I don't know how to do)? for everyone to have an illustration of the Grimper article and relative explanation...? Many thanks.
OffLine JLH
  2019-01-23 21:26:57    
OffLine Sebastian Peace
  2019-01-23 22:13:30    
The boulder can now be found on bleau.info with another picture and the story Bart van Raaij told us.
OffLine rai
  2019-01-24 11:32:47    
Thanks JLH ;-)
Apparently Jens has used it to hammer his own point of view...