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Forum: GLOBAL / Editorial / UIAA presents corrosion locations Login in to contribute
UIAA presents corrosion locations
OffLine 8a.nu
  2019-06-04 00:00:00    
UIAA has presented a map with known corrosion locations and interestingly almost all spots are crags very close to the sea.

OffLine Philippe Vaucher
  2019-06-05 08:07:32    
Just want to remind people that bolts and anchors subject to this can fail at ~50 kg (even when rappeling down). On some bolts the corrosion is not even visible (it's internal), so be safe out there if you climb near the sea.
OffLine Grosariu Stefan
  2019-06-05 12:51:59    
Corrosion is something natural on the coast. Anything that is less corosion resistant than SS 1.4401 (V4A), will likely fail very rapidly, and even this type of steel will not last forever. Probably a general rule of using anything less resistant in places other that deserts, is borderline dangerous, given the material knowledge base. stay safe, climb clean.
OffLine Jens Larssen
  2019-06-05 14:02:54    
It seems granite and gneiss crags close to the sea do not have such big problem with A2. We have many such bolts 25 year old that looks fine in Sweden.

Clearly when you bolt such crags nowadays you should always opt for A4 to get a better resistance.
OffLine Joakim Thommesen
  2019-06-05 14:28:47    
How come Gothenburg isn't on the map? Worst most corroded bolts I have ever climbed on.
OffLine Jens Larssen
  2019-06-05 14:45:55    
Could you give some examples as I climb in the area and do not have the same experience. We have had some rusty bolts but those did not have even A2 quality.
OffLine HaeMeS
  2019-06-05 18:26:42    
At Träleberget for exemple. Which you will have seen.
OffLine Jens Larssen
  2019-06-05 20:05:15    
I have not seen any A2 bolts in bad shape in Träleberget.
OffLine Joakim Thommesen
  2019-06-06 13:20:39    
@Jens As far as I can judge, the map doesn't say anything about A2 or material quality - it just points out areas with dangerous bolts. Svanvik an Vikskile are two areas in Gbg that should be on the map. And probably several other crags in this area, as it does not seem to have been performed any maintenance work there whatsoever.
OffLine Quentin Viaud
  2019-06-06 13:39:32    
Corsica (French Island right up north to Sardinia) should DEFINITELY be on the list. I live here and lots of crags still have bolts that have been corroded. During the last 10 years pretty much every new bolt has been stainless steel, but you can still encounter here and there very bad bolts.
OffLine Jens Larssen
  2019-06-06 13:47:28    
@Joakim: When was the last time you visited those crags. I know that many of the old bad quality bolts were rebolted at least five years ago.

The article discusses A4 and what I have said is that it seems A2 have been working ok. In any case, A2 should be avoided as bolts.
OffLine Henning Wang
  2019-06-06 20:14:54    
It is very obvious that the worst corrosion locations are by the sea, and in a warm climate, the interesting part here is that you somehow find this to be interesting (as it is obvious).
A2 is next to useless in any remotly corrosive outdoor enviroment.. A4 is better, but also quite bad in most, if not all, the locations on the map.
OffLine Jens Larssen
  2019-06-06 20:39:01    
It might be obvious for most climbers but anyhow UIAA did think this info was interesting to share. I agree with UIAA and it is hard for me to understand how come you not think it is interesting to spread to everyone who not found it obvious.

UIAA has previously said colder climate as well as granite and gneiss are less likely to get corrosion. This might be the reason why the Nordic countries have been less affected.
OffLine kilian kolb
  2019-06-06 23:04:48    
Jens, maybe you should also mention in the main "article/post" that this map only shows locations kown for corrosion of stainless steel anchors. At the moment it reads like "every location where you find rusty bolts".
OffLine Jens Larssen
  2019-06-06 23:14:03    
The article starts already with the exact message you want...

"UIAA has presented a map with known corrosion locations
OffLine Philippe Vaucher
  2019-06-07 09:39:25    
From what I heard titanium bolts are the only one safe for now, but they are more expensive. In some areas the classic bolts were corroded after two years only.

Also wether the route gets rained on or not (overhanging) has a big impact (the salt gets washed away).
OffLine Henning Wang
  2019-06-07 15:02:39    
Kilian has a good point, this article is wildly missleading as it referes to spots where corrosion is so bad that stainless steel bolts (both A2 and A4) are known to fail. This is by no means the same as calling this a (complete) map of areas with rusty bolts as those can be found all over the world..
OffLine Jens Larssen
  2019-06-07 15:25:31    
Please contact UIAA if you think their report is misleading. I have only said, ""UIAA has presented a map with known corrosion locations...
OffLine Tj Ovesen
  2019-06-12 08:52:21    
60 degrees Celsius is when salt turns acidic. The amount of salt in limestone differs a lot. Tufa lines are more exposed. In Kalymnos they are rebolting with expansion bolts. Can someone with a little more sway than me please point that out to them.
Ice expands. The acid proof glue used to rebolt in the northern hemisphere might crack and also prove to be a mistake.
OffLine Joakim Thommesen
  2019-06-13 12:47:06    
OffLine Jens Larssen
  2019-06-13 12:53:49    
Could you pleas explain more... "Ice expands. The acid proof glue used to rebolt in the northern hemisphere might crack and also prove to be a mistake."
OffLine Tj Ovesen
  2019-06-13 13:13:34    
It's just a theory after shattering some old left over glue that was frozen. Water can get in to little pores. When it freezes it could potentially create cracks. In time and perhaps less time than the old expansion bolts they could pop.
Please tell me I'm wrong.
OffLine Jens Larssen
  2019-06-13 13:30:37    
Interesting... it would be interesting to get some scientific study on this. On the other hand, I have hard to understand how water could get inside the glue in the drilled hold.
OffLine Joakim Thommesen
  2019-06-13 13:54:59    
I think we can rest assured that glue developed for outdoor constructions in northern Europe is validated wrt freeze-thaw cycles.
OffLine Tj Ovesen
  2019-06-13 16:23:00    
You are probably right.
However if you freeze the glue it will shatter surprisingly easy.
Hilti 500 was made for under water anchors where it almost never freezes because of the pressure. Put it in the freezer and give it a light dab with a hammer. Unlikely there will be many falls on frozen glue but some of these northerners can get pretty obsessed.
Freeze it 100 times...In 15 years I will be proven wrong.
OffLine Tj Ovesen
  2019-06-13 16:27:31    
I hope
OffLine Tj Ovesen
  2019-06-13 17:16:00    
Found this about Hilti 500 used in Norway
May be installed in concrete with temperatures ranging from 23°F to 104°F (-5°C to 40°C) with no degrading of bond strength. As far as I could see it has not been tested below -5.
OffLine Tj Ovesen
  2019-06-13 17:25:09    
To my surprise it is not acid proof. Maybe that explains why it is turning blue in Thailand. Go crush