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Forum: GLOBAL / Editorial / Lack of hardcore onsights and flashes Login in to contribute
Lack of hardcore onsights and flashes
OffLine 8a.nu
  2018-12-02 00:00:00    
During the last years, we have seen a great progress when it comes to redpoint grades for both male, female, youngsters and oldies. Strangely enough, when it comes to route onsights it seems the level is decreasing beside Adam Ondra. Nowadays, it is very seldom we hear about 8c's respectively 8a+' being onsighted by male and female. In comparison, Ondra has done 84 onsights 8c and harder.

In bouldering, we saw some progress up to 8B and even 8B+ some years ago but last year, almost none did flash an 8B. Kind of strange as there exist videos of most of the hard 8B out there and also that there are many more to choose from compared to five years ago. Among the male, James Webb sticks out with 19 8B boulders flash.

When the 8a scorecard was set up in 2000, we choose to award onsights very high in order to motivate more onsights. Maybe it is time to increase the bonus and also report more high class onsight? Remember that it might not be a coincidence that Adam Ondra had a focus on onsights being a teenager. In general, many coaches and trainers say that it is better to build a wide onsight pyramid instead of just redpointing a personal best.
OffLine Joakim Thommesen
  2018-12-03 09:36:53    
What a great idea. What about giving more points for routes at less visited crags to increase visitation there? Or to give more points for local routes, to nudge towards low CO2 ascents. Then we can finally find out who's the most politically correct climber.
OffLine wam
  2018-12-03 09:53:44    
@Jens No offense but i really don't think 8a.nu scorecard is what drive these elite climbers... Or any other climber for what i know
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2018-12-03 10:56:08    
I have talked to many climbers over the year, including the elite, saying that the scorecard awarding onsights have had an impact of how they climb. I do think grades have a great meaning of which routes climbers choose. It seems that easy graded routes get more attention in comparison to hard graded routes. Schleier Wasserfall is a good example of a super crag that probably would have gotten more attention if most routes were upgraded with one grade :)

I encourage especially youngsters going for more onsights instead of projecting long term redpoints.
OffLine Henning Wang
  2018-12-07 00:18:59    
Why try to force people to onsight if they don´t want to? Why not make the ranking reflect some form of reality instead? The ranking system as it is already gives about a full grades worth of points to much for onsights, aswell as encourage people to take obviously wrong guidebook grades at holiday destinations that use this to attract indoor climbing tourists. Why not instead focus on making a scorecard system where you are not punished for being honest about the grade and don´t try to make people run around chasing easy onsights...

There is nothing better then a great crag with hard graded routes and few people! You misunderstand if you think its a good thing with more people polishing the rock and creating access issues at a crag so you get to stand in line while some overpsyched parent is forcing his/her kid to hangdog your project for 3 hours the one day it´s good conditions.

It wasn´t that many years ago Janja was flashing 8c´s in Santa Linya and the other girls flashed/onsighted 8b-8b+ routes here and there.
What you should be focusing on is why these obviously super talented athlets don´t focus more on rock. Janja almost did Realization in 2 days or something before Margo did it, then left to win yet another worldcup no one will remember and never came back, whats´s up with that?
OffLine Joakim Thommesen
  2018-12-07 18:33:02    
I agree with Henning - the points, and the point hunting game, have become a joke, and have been for a long time. I was about to write some more thoughts here, until I remembered that the points will always be a joke, no matter what, so why bother. Have a nice weekend.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2018-12-07 23:18:07    
It is very bad if youngsters only focus on redpointing and getting injured instead of challenging them on onsights!
OffLine Franz the Stampede
  2018-12-09 17:04:38    
"Janja almost did Realization in 2 days or something before Margo did it"

OffLine Tj Ovesen
  2018-12-10 02:44:51    
Apart from the emotional wether to have points or not it is simple math really.
If you want on sight to match red points in the score system you take the 100 best climbers. I did it with the 10 best climbers a few years back(ten minutes work). conclusion was that on sight should be rewarded more. 3 grades+5 instead of -5. Base a change on the numbers and there is always the option of having a log book if u don't like it.