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Forum: GLOBAL / Editorial / Pros and cons with Olympic money Login in to contribute
Pros and cons with Olympic money
OffLine 8a.nu
  2019-03-13 00:00:00    
Tokyo 2020 has already had a great impact on many of the federations when it comes to funding. Talking to coaches and athletes, many say their financial support for training camps, competition travels and even monthly salary have created much better opportunities.

Most probably, this will mean that we will see bigger starting fields and in fact a higher level which the route setters have to adjust to.

At the same time, the pressure on the route setters will increase dramatically and it will also be very hard for them to stay independent towards the federations somewhat paying their salary. What they are all aiming for is to set the climbs in Tokyo 2020. Possibly this could be that there will be a slight adjustment towards the preferable style for the often shorter and more dynamic Japanese climbers?

Further more, all route setters knows quite well which type of routes and boulders each top climber likes so it will be a very delicate issue to set the only three final boulders in Tokyo.

Of course this could also relate to the holds the route setters bring to the scene which some nations will know better than others. Do not forget also that as climbing is getting bigger it will be possible to bet money who will win etc. In the end it just might be that IFSC must set up some rules in order to create as much fairness as possible. Here are some critical info that just might be shared some months before every comp, beside that route setters have to sign documents with all kind of rules.

1. Specify which holds that will be used.
2. Specify the walls and their angels.
3. Specify which types of style
Click to Enlarge Picture
OffLine olmin
  2019-03-13 14:30:13    
and what about not specifying anything and keep it secret? will that not be possible?
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-13 14:39:50    
The local gym owner will see which type of holds the route setter will bring in. Possibly that person did even pay for the holds. If the gym owner will rebuild any walls, the locals will now it before.

Possibly they can then set up a simulation comp two days before the comp which will be an advantage. I have heard that the Austrians had better knowledge of which type of holds they were using in the world championship in Innsbruck, which seems logical.
OffLine olmin
  2019-03-13 14:50:08    
aren't we talking about the olympics? Are they going to be held in a private gym? I thought the idea was to build a whole wall from zero just for the event...and not in a gym. maybe I'm missing something.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-13 15:27:39    
The article discusses pros and cons from today and forward. The route setters will in 2019 compete to become the Tokyo Olympic setter. When it comes to Tokyo, I do think the they will build a new wall but I think it is too difficult to have everything including all the holds. I think it is better that they present a drawing etc in order to create the most fairness.
OffLine Georg Hoffmann
  2019-03-13 17:13:08    
If you WANT it fair it is easy. The Routesetters are not allowed to bring any holds. They have to take the holds from the "gym". If they dont know before what they will "find" its the same for everybody. Knowing holds is a smaller Problem then being used to specific movements. Especially the big holds are not that different.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-13 17:47:49    
I am sure the route setters can have great impact of the result even if they will just get the holds when they arrive. Using ”gym” holds will create advantage for the locals. I think the best way is to just a couple months ahead give all details for the competitors.

The biggest problem for me is when the route setters are friends with athletes or coaches. It is just super easy to cheat and here IFSC have a big challenge.
OffLine olmin
  2019-03-13 23:36:09    
Isolation for route setters
OffLine Freddie Chopin
  2019-03-14 07:53:47    
> Isolation for route setters

Just shoot them right after they finish setting up the route. (;
OffLine Martijn Pieterse
  2019-03-14 09:11:46    
Jens, you accuse route setters of match-fixing here. Do you have any proof of this? Has this happened in the past?
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-14 11:06:26    
I only say this is possible and and I have heard that IFSC are aware of this. The question is how to avoid it.
OffLine Jason Crank
  2019-03-14 20:00:11    
We'll know ahead of time which countries are in the hunt and which aren't. With 20 spots, and some countries very capable of grabbing multiple spots (Japan), just select setters from unrepresented countries.
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-14 20:20:38    
I think this would be a good way to deal with it but nevertheless, there are a lot of other link-up in between route setters and athletes and sponsors.
OffLine Kenny Walker
  2019-03-15 00:04:31    
The routesetters will sign confidentiality agreements. Surely with a team of the best setters globally we’re going to see a good variety of setting and styles. Jason’s idea of excluding setters based on ‘their’ althletes competing is unfair and probably unworkable - setters should be selected on merit. Maybe hold manufacturers can create an Olympic set to get around familiarity? I don’t think athletes having a priori route knowledge is good as it’ll just make it more difficult to separate the field. If all the problems are flashed by half the field it’s gonna be a fiasco. This will showcase comp climbing to the world so the setters had better nail it!
OffLine Martijn Pieterse
  2019-03-19 08:28:28    
I wonder... What if popular climber X has has some kind of injury 3 weeks before the competition. It is in the news and everyone is sad because he cannot pull hard on mono's anymore for the next 3 months.

Are route setters then allowed to use a mono in any route? Or would this be considered foul play?
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-19 09:43:22    
Surely the route setters can use a mono in such case :)

One easy way to cheat would be to set one problem that perfectly fits a team or an individual. Then the rest problems could be either too hard or too easy, meaning that probably just one boulder will set the ranking.
OffLine Kenny Walker
  2019-03-19 12:06:13    
Jens do you actually have evidence of this happening in high level competitions or is this just another Honnold vs K2 hypothetical to bang on about?
OnLine Jens Larssen
  2019-03-19 12:29:57    
It is clearly explained in the article that what I am referring to is that climbing has become an Olympic sport with more money on stake. I have of course heard about this several times but of course no evidence was presented. I am just talking about that there is a risk for such thing to happen now with more money involved.