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Open forum

Ketogenic diet and climbing

I would like to know anyone who has been on the ketogenic diet for a long period of time. Today is one month of me trying this diet or i would rather say my new way of eating because the word diet reminds me too much of trying to say that i am reducing my food intake and Ketogenic is not about reducing calories its about eating the same amount of calories as you would normally but getting those calories from fat, protein and minimal amounts of carbohydrates, in my case less than 50gms per day but this isn't me being scientifically accurate its a rough guess thats all. Well firstly i have been around 80 to 82kg for the last five years also i am 52 years old and i am the type of person who wouldn't say no to a pint of beer or even a full bottle of wine now and then. My diet for the last five years has been in accordance with most peoples idea of eating healthy which would be oats and fruits for breakfast sometimes with cinnamon and coconut added and i also drink water with half a lemon squeezed into it. Lunch would be salad with chicken or fish and dinner would be vegetables and lean meats or fish . Snacks would be bananas or rice cakes with tuna and occasionally nuts. A few times a week i would eat pasta and rice usually with ground beef or a mixture of chicken and garlic and ginger and other spices.  According to my Omron scales i have been consuming around 1760 calories to remain at this weight. My new breakfast for the last 4 weeks has been one Avocado  one large pot of yogurt with nuts and seeds and half a serving of protein powder which is whey isolate, 3 eggs scrambled and a full pack of salmon. All this i eat at around 10.30 after i have had one black coffee on an empty stomach and done my one hour run. My next meal will be about 8pm and this will be lots and lots of greens usually cabbage broccoli spinach and asparagus with either a big fatty steak or fish usually another pack of salmon with 3 scrambled eggs again. All my green veg is mixed with lots of full fat salt free butter . I will then eat a big bag of nuts usually monkey nuts but the plain type and not the salted ones. I sometime eat another big yogurt with more nuts. i also eat full fat cheese just the odd slice if i feel a bit hungry Here is the point i really want to make. Today i am 6kg lighter after only 4 weeks. I feel amazing both physically and mentally and  my climbing has improved significantly and i really haven't felt this good since i was in my early 30s i haven't craved for anything and i haven't felt hungry at all even some days i have fasted for 16 hours and it has felt very easy. Before this i was always hungry and my  body would crash if i didn't eat after a lot of exercise also when i was really hungry and i couldn't get food fast i wasnt a very nice person to be around because i would become very irritable and and sometimes angry. This diet includes lots of dairy and red meat which i have tried to avoid over many years.  Now i do not eat pasta, rice, bread, normal potatoes or cereals and no oats.  I do not consume anything that contains sugar, no chocolate, no fruit juices and no tropical fruits. The only fruits i eat are lemons and sometimes i put blueberries in my yogurt.  Here are the results after only 4 weeks i have gone from 24% body fat to 16 %. My visceral fat was 12 now its 9. my bodyweight was 80 now its 74 and my muscle percentage has gone up from 35% to 40 %. I am delighted with this change and the only physical things i have done more of on top of my climbing is run one hour 3 times a week.  I am now expecting lots of comments by people telling me that it isn't a healthy and long term fix but right now i personally am very pleased with my changes especially at my age and i will continue eating this way until i notice any negative side effects.  This will upset a lot of vegans but everyone is different so i would like to apologise in advance if anyone thinks i am adding to the ozone layer etc and also remind you that if you are a northern european fruitairian  eating bananas and exotic tropical fruits then your contribution to the ozone pollution equally rests with you. Happy new year to you all especially if you are trying to change your way of eating.  
Hey Alan, I tried a ketogenic- like diet too, but I wasn't as committed as you are. I reduced my carb intake and ate way more fat and protein than before. I guess my daily carb intake was something about 100 gramms. At the beginning it felt not that good, but after two weeks I was able to train harder, lose body fat and I climbed almost one grade harder than before. But I had one specific problem: each time when I did my warm- up routine for gym- indoor- climbing or training I felt weak at first and somewhat not fit. I wasn't able to give 100%. I had to change a little: shortly before every session I enjoyed a chocolate- muffin (my favorite) or a slice of bread with honey (and loooots of butter of course). My training ability suddenly improved and I was back at 100%. My best friend and climbing parnter tried a complete and consequent ketogenic diet. He lost also body fat and had the same problem like me: During training or climbing he felt tired and weak. We both came to the personal conclusion that hardcore training and sports is not possible for us with too little or no carbs. We had to modify our nutrition and had some carbs before and after training. It's really hard to find the perfect amount and the fitting food, I think the amount of carbs you need differs from person to person and from lifestyle to lifestyle. Our diet is a mix of low- carb and ketogenic, but our bodies don't go into the "ketogenic phase". On rest days and "easy climbing days" low carb with 50 to 200 grams of carbs and on "hardcore days" carbs before and after sports/climbing. The carbs we eat have a middle to low glycemic index, like pasta, veggies, some sorts of bread (no white bread) potatoes, oats, salad etc. We avoid high glycemic carbs like sweet milk chocolate, white bread, most fruits and soft drinks of course. (dark chocolate with about 70% cocoa is fine for us) The biggest problem for me personally is alcohol. I reeeeealy like beer (I'm german by the way) and cutting beer out of my diet is the hardest for me. But I do my best ;-) To conclude, me and my climbing partner found a personal way and a personal diet. The ketogenic style is hard to compare, every body ticks different. My advice is: try it!!! Eat ketogenic, do your training and pay attention to your body. Increase carbs when nesessary. Don't give 100% if you feel to tired or weak. That's the most difficult part: the feeling. But you seem like a smart guy, I think you can find your way. Regards from the Frankenjura, Ändymän
Dave MacLeod is experimenting with a ketogenic diet and seems to be very enthusiastic about it. He talks about it in The Training Beta Podcast .
Thanks for the input Andyman I think maybe i have got the balance right because i am getting all my carbs from green veggies tonight for example i just ate a full bag of raw spinach and a missive head of broccoli a full pack of salmon and a load of cheese and i drizzled olive oil over it all and added some cashew nuts sea salt b;ack pepper and garlic. After i ate a massive family soize yogurt with a seed mix.  Since day 3 i have not had any cravings at all and my warm ups are better.   Like you said everyone is different and i have never really been a sugar person , all my life i have never taken sugar in tea or coffee and i don't really like sweets or cakes so i could have a beneficial natural disposition to this Ketogenic diet i suppose. I am monitoring everything i do and everything i eat and keeping track of the times because i want to be able to advise and help anyone else who is thinking about trying it. I am not a qualified nutritionist but i have a good understanding of nutrition but now i am finding that using myself as a guinea pig the things that i have believed in during the past are not giving me the results that i want for my sport but this ketogenic diet certainly is.  I can quantify my results so to me this is a positive learning experience. 
Thanks Daniel. I think i have explained this to my friends exactly how Dave Macleod explained it in this pod cast. Is Dave on here ??