Is working highballs on rope first legit?

nope.  not legit.  unless of course you have a life that demands your ability to walk. then it's okay.

I do think it is OK, to use arope for cleaning and trying the moves. Why not? I do not think it is OK, to do it with the rope haning or that somebody is ready to throw it done. This is a practice that for me is cheating. You want to look tough but for me it is cheating.

For me, bouldering is a ground-up pursuit. The only thing I would consent to is cleaning holds on a rope, but even that tarnishes things. Otherwise, if you are rehearsing, then you aren't pushing the envelope, you're peeking to see what's inside, before sending it. I think thats called headpointing on sport leads, so for bouldering I'll call it lamepointing.

I think John Sherman summed up this topic pretty well: Jason states that headpointing and highballing have become blurred. To clear up this mess the media should designate a new term to describe highball poser problems prepared on rappel. Because I find Jason a likable, entertaining individual who gives a lot to the climbing community I hope they don’t call this fuzzy pursuit Kehlgeling. Besides this might get confused with kegeling which actually whips pussies into shape. For want of any better inspiration I suggest any bouldering cleaned, chalked or rehearsed on a rope be called highbawling. FUCK YEAH! BE A BAWLER!!!!

Brian is my new hero. fuckin posers will ruin every sport for everyone eventually. "buy the ticket, take the ride" Hunter S. Thompson

Do whatever you want with your time off. These are the same people that have a strict set of ethics for bird watching...always bitching at their grandparents.

oh.  seriously.  i'd use a rope to clean off holds up high if my ladder won't reach.  if i felt like i needed a rope to rehearse the moves i probably wouldn't bother with the problem.  it's not an ethic, i'm just lazy. 

Headpointing a highball to me is very similar to headpointing a trad route, except you don't place ANY gear on the redpoint. Of course the lines are blurred and continue to blur even more... I think of it this way: Would I find a ground-up ascent of Ambrosia impressive and inspiring? Yes of course I would. Does that mean I'm not impressed by K. Jorgeson's FA, rehearsed on toprope? Of course I am! That FA was an incredible achievement, and set a very high bar for challenging Mental -and- Physical strength. He set a goal for himself and achieved it. One day someone else might do it ground-up, and one day it might be flashed... Will it be me? Not in the greatly foreseeable future, that is for sure. :)

To use a ladder = To use a rope. To do a first ascent ground up could be 10 times more scary and more difficult to do the repeat, if you are not using a rope. 

on ladder = rope: i see how this might appear true.  they are similar in that they both allow increased access to holds.  like a stick brush (or standing on your friend's shoulders), both give you access to holds beyond your bodily capacity.  both are tools.  etc. etc.  but the enormous difference, in my mind, is the rope allows one to practice moves without a ground fall.  and in this context that is all the difference in the world. so, no, they are not the same.     on cleaning and climate: in my experience, the possibility of doing a ground-up highball fa changes drastically depending on geography.  in arid climates (deserts), for instance, my primary off-the-deck concerns have been rock quality and landing sketchiness.  if you live in a mid-latitude tropical forest, however, your efforts are hampered by a wide variety of not-so-solid plant matter (moss, grass, etc.) growing in and around holds.  thrutching to a mossy green crimp (or muddy brown crimp) over and over doesn't magically clean it up.  it's more often than not gonna need some brush lovin'.  and if it's 25' off the deck and not close to a clean/positive hold.... i'm at a loss to come up with a 'bawler' way to go about it.  so for my take on this not-so-ethical 'ethical' dilemma:  situation dictates.  crappy rock?  ladder and/or rope.  caked in river mud?  ladder and/or rope.  solid rock sans massive organic growth?  ground up. my hope would be to ground up everytime (again, because i'm way too lazy to set up a TR or carry a ladder), but i'm not gonna push it into absurdity if the situation demands some improvisation on my end. t

Totally just do what you want.. its your ascent and it only matters to you at the end of the day. Its not damaging the rock if you top rope it a few times and as long as you don't hog the route all day long.. I got no prob with it. Rules aren't meant for climbing... if we all followed the rules we wouldn't be using chalk, bolts, sticky rubber, top ropes etc etc etc

who cares? keep climbing personal and don't worry about anyones ethics but your own.

If in the end you are still sending the climb without a rope, you can do anything you like before that... No one says that headpointing is unethical, more commonly the british climbers are praised for their guts in doing such exposed climbs! Why should it be different for boulders? And besides, ethics is personal when it comes to safety. Ok when it is about respect of a tradition like no chalk, or no bolts but trad gear instead, but everyone must be able to chose how much they are willing to risk their lives or major injuries that will affect their private as well as climbing life.

Yeah its legit, its just better style to onsight. However the only way to send many of the hard high balls around is to work them on top rope. I watched Sharma work an unrepeated highball in flock hill (its the super sick thing in Big Game- but i was in flock when he was on it) on top rope until he had it dialled. No complaints from anyone since if he hadnt had the top rope he would never had been able to work out how to stick the slopers at the top. All an onsight attempt at topping out would have brought would have been two broken ankles and an unsent problem of eternal doom.

Can one claim a flash from a boulder of which's holds he has gone through with top rope but haven't tried any of the actual moves or hanged from the holds?

I do not think you could flash something you have looked from above. Check #11 on the 8a ethic article.

I agree with jens, checking out the whole problem/route while on a rope is not eligible for flash attempt. trying moves/feeling holds or not. for the rest, clean that sucker anyway you want, and while you're up there, try the moves. go for a redpoint. if the climb is nice enough, people will respect that more than wether you did it flash, OS or redpoint. it's all about the line, ladies!

@ jens: Isn't the definition of Flash "to ascend a route or problem on the first attempt with prior knowledge about the route or problem"? If you cannot flash a boulder problem while looking down from above, does it also mean you cannot flash a route that you have to rappel to the base of to begin climbing? I'm not trying to open a can of worms ethically of course, rather looking for 8as stance on which prior knowledge is legitimate beta and which is offside... -D

I don't agree on the flash thing. personally, as long as you don't try the moves, you can rappel on something even touch the holds, thickmark everything, and call it flash . Simply, it is not onsight that's exactly why there should be no onsight in conventional (no highball) bouldering, because it is very unlikely that you didn't brush the problem and check out every single hold+the exit ridge in detail before your flash attempt. @Dustin Harris yup, I wouldn't consider that a route you have to rappel on first is onsightable . As far as I've always been told, in onsight you can look at the route from the ground and from neighboring routes, and get no explicit beta in the form of talk, text, watching a climber, purposely made thickmarks (a friend doing them for you). Anything that goes beyond the described rules but does not involve a try on any of the moves, is a flash . So, for a flash , almost anything is legit, even measuring every hold and reproducing the route on your wall before trying it, in the most absurd case.

If you want to flash a route you have to rappel to the base, you can just close your eyes or look else where. It would just be stupid to say that you can rapell and check all the holds prior to a flash.