Forum: GLOBAL / News / 8c FA by Paul Robinson in Magic Wood Login in to contribute
8c FA by Paul Robinson in Magic Wood
  2010-10-13 00:00:00    
Paul Robinson has done the first ascent of Ill Trill, 8C in Magic Wood. "An amazing boulder and psyched to have the FA of this one. Harder than ANY 8B+ I have done. Feels about as hard as Terremer. 13 moves of every style and none are easy w/ the crux final move! 6 days." During the last three months, Paul has done seven 8B+ and harder. (c) Stefan Schlumpf.
OffLine Phil Hrozek
  2010-10-14 14:18:48    
..if this is the problem next to "man of the cow"..this had been a project of bernd zangerl..he tried it many years ago..and was still trying it..i wonder if he knows about the ascent..??
OffLine Bernd Zangerl
  2010-10-14 17:10:38    
....now i know:-)  Congratulation to Paul,  for finishing this magic wood project !!!  This is a really great problem with
crazy moves. I was also working on this problem for some time and i just get
back in shape, after all my travelling this year. And since you found an easier
solution for the sloper move i am even more motivated. But i did this problem already as a standstart ( without the
first two moves ) a couple of times. ( i also slipped of from the top out hold
last year; so this is a „special mind project“ for me J ) I named the stand
„WOVENHAND“.  I sent you these
infos on your blog......but maybe you never got.

As i am from a older generation, i think it’s  disrespectful to give it a new name?? Just
because I do two more moves on an existing problem i would never rename it. This
is something which should not take over in the bouldering community. I have big
respect for all people out there, which are going out and searching new lines,
cleaning problems,  looking for new
stuff. This is what bouldering is about.....for myself. Searching new visions
and try  to make them real. I had
this visions already years ago and started working on this problem. I would
never go to „Midnight Lighning“ and rename it after making a sitdown. it.

Maybe you never got these infos, so i thought i inform you
this way....and we can keep the name „WOVENHAND“.

Congratulation to this fast ascent !!!! You are really in
best shape right now, and i hope you find a cool line in Ticino, which inspires
other people to try.
All the best
bernd
OffLine Andrew Haydawg
  2010-10-14 19:23:59    
Nalle recently added a 4 move, sit?, start to Mote of God's Eye and called it Butterfinger. Paul also gave Rastaman Vibration Sit a new name, Lucid Dreaming. Perhaps as you say generational thing? Very unlikely anyone means disrespect.
OffLine Greg Corn
  2010-10-14 21:43:20    
This isnt the first time paul has renamed a problem. I am sure no disrespect was intended but I just think the young guys would show a tonne of class leaving names what they are. If it wasnt climbed then for sure, call it what you want but I totally agree adding a sit start to a problem and then renaming it is pretty lame. This problem has a name and goes at v??? on the sit start and v??? on the standup or at some other arbitrary part. Just one persons opinion. Props where it is due, awesome send for a kid who is ripping it up and I am sure motivating a tonne of people. Maybe he didnt know it was already named? I think the climbing community itself should settle what constitutes a new problem. How to do that?????? No idea.
OffLine louis de cornulier
  2010-10-14 21:43:47    
I'll have to stand on the European side and defend Bernd! This is an american custom to rename boulders or routes after adding a few more moves (typically a sitstart). Maybe less poetic, but also much less confusing, we call it "Problem A sit start", which is way clearer... My two cents! As you said Andrew, I don't think there is any disrespect, ignorance would be more like it. Respect would be to abide by the local rule, and keep the original name. Apart from that, congratulations to both for their talent, I hope we can see it on video someday!
OffLine Pascal Heger
  2010-10-14 21:58:22    
It's not that clear-cut between the US and EU. The European example that comes to mind is "The Island" and "The big island".. When vincent sent "the island" from the ground, it was an incredible achievement and no one argued that this consitutes for a new name. We will see how this will develop.
OffLine Marcus Moreno
  2010-10-15 09:36:29    
Yarr
OffLine Gabe Walker
  2010-10-15 12:46:31    
It is striking to me that Paul did publish the boulder as a first ascent and not as the mere addition of a sit start. I think Paul would not have done this if he knew the stand had been done by Bernd Z. He did not try to sell "Rastaman..." as a completely new problem, so why should he do it in this case if he had known of the first ascent of the stand (he has probably not received Bernd Z.'s message)? And after the "Bleagle" aka. Black Eagle discussion and the accusations of beeing disrespectful I can not believe Paul would do the same again.
OffLine Anthony Vicino
  2010-10-15 21:27:00    
I think people are jumping to conclusions without first including Paul in the conversation.
OffLine User Deactivated
  2010-10-16 03:30:14    
Anthony is right. Ill Trill was a project written in the topo of magic wood, that is where he heard about it. He tried it and got the first ascent of the whole line. No need to point a nation or anybody with the finger, just go climbing. Peace.
OffLine Jens Larssen
  2010-10-16 14:56:24    
I asked Paul to comment what Bernd said, "In the guidebook it only mentions the climb as a project. There is a picture of the climb, it says project under it and nothing else. I started in the mosst logical place on the jugs at the bottom of the wall. There is no stand start what so ever to this climb. There is one obvious starting hold at the bottom. I did not rename it as I did not even know it had a name before I went there and to call where bernd started a climb is crazy. No one would ever know which holds he began on." The whole affair just seems to be based on missunderstandings and poor communication. Based on what Paul says, of course he did do nothing wrong. I have asked Bernd to comment this and then some clarifying news will be published.
OffLine Samuel Egli
  2010-10-17 17:38:54    
what should wovenhand mean? i would also be interested in this.
OffLine Bernd Zangerl
  2010-10-17 18:42:36    

I also meet Paul these days, and it seems that he never got
the message on his blog or on his mail . Sometimes the  worldwide „data and rumor transfer“ is still
not working. I never wanted to say, Paul did something wrong!!!! .....but I
also took this chance to bring up this discussion, because there are new situations these days in sport,
bouldering, climbing, which can be ( should be ) discussed on a base level of
ethics. Maybe we need no ethics anymore and the sport is just getting a mirror
image of your society? Maybe some people think like I do, maybe some people
think this is „bullshit“.....so here just a few more words to think about.....not
to „battle“ about!!!!!

There is no right or wrong nowadays in this, and no national
problem. At the end it’s always a personal affair, a personal view. But a few
years ago, it would have been „wrong“ to rename a boulderproblem, after putting
up a sit. Nobody in the bouldering scene was even thinking about this. NOW, WE
DO !!!  A few years ago, and i
still do, i would ask if i can try a project found by someone else. NOW, IT’S
FREE FOR ALL.  I have no problem
with this and if i would have met Paul in Magic Wood and i see, that he can do
it quickly...he should go for it !!!!!  I for myself would not try a project if somebody is close to
send it, and i see his motivation which he put’s into it.

For me, finding a line, finding a project which is hard, but
possible is not something you have every day. So maybe this is the reason for my
„ethical“ view...different view.  And
less and less people go searching, or cleaning. My friends and I probaly
cleaned 90% of the Magic Wood and developed some other areas in Ticino. Those
places are crowded now, everybody goes there and wants to do some „classics“. Just
a few go out and search new places, new inspirations for the sport. But for me
finding a great line, finding something NEW, checking out the moves is the
creative part in bouldering.  This
is still my motivation, after 10 years of exploring and cleaning. So I respect
all those explorers, because they look for something new.

......is this still the right topic?? J  i think we can close this now.....
have fun & search a block

 bernd

OffLine Bernd Zangerl
  2010-10-17 18:47:43    
wovenhand....old band, experimental folk, neo-folk sound, old nick cave band, very melancholic music...from old times:-) ......you also find interessting translations into german.. bernd
OffLine Pippi
  2010-10-18 20:12:58    
Very good speaking by Bernd!     what a pity that we didn't get to hear Paul's opinion...