Some views and thoughts on knee pad ethics

Jernej Kruder sent Martin Krpan (9a) in December without using kneepads to respect the first ascensionist and commented, “I would like to expose something here: I spent many tries on this one, because my endurance is pretty bad, but I chose not to use kneepads since I respect the first ascent. Using kneepads would help me rest just before the crux. This would make grading equal to Konec Mira (8c/c+). Kneepad would also make me rest after the crux, where I was mostly falling. This would make the route even easier. So people, if you decide to disrespect the first ascensionist by using kneepads, then at least be true to yourself by not calling it 9a!” In this article he elaborated a bit more.

Jernej received a lot of credit for his thoughts and it created an interesting debate in the forum. Tobi Corr made a long statement which is one of the most "venga/liked" comments ever recorded on 8a:

"My few cents on the topic: Some people underestimate and under-appreciate kneebaring as a skill. Why do you think Dave Graham or other kneebar-expert pro climbers use kneepads on basically every climb that they do on climbs where nobody else does? Why are we not seeing more repeats of First Round First Minute if the kneebar beta is such a game changer? Is it because most people want to do it the way it was FAd or because they can't utilize the kneebar beta?

Another question for this scenario then is whether the kneebar-expert should downgrade the climb because it was an easier solution for him/her or recognize that for the average kneebar-leveled climber this does not make the climb any easier. Some people assume kneepads and kneebars are a "necessary evil" in order to get to the top of climbs in easier ways. Speaking for myself, I enjoy technical kneebar climbing a lot and think it, contrary to what some suggest, increases the complexity of climbing by opening up a larger set of available techniques. I think having kneepads as an available tool makes climbing more fun for me.

We all have different views on climbing. If you don't want to climb with kneepads, then don't. If you want to repeat a climb the same way it was FAd, then do. If you don't want to use a fan, then don't. If you want to use a full-body rubber suite, then do. If you want to have a crew of people holding a fan on the crux hold of your route, then do. If you think it is silly, then don't. As long as you don't mess with the experience for other's I think you should be allowed to climb in whichever style you want.

What is important is that if you are playing the "tick-hard-routes-to-get-cred" game, then I think you need to be honest about how you did it. After all, grades are subjective (as we all know) and may be different depending on what material is being used (as we all know), and giving a good grade suggestions may be challenging even for experienced climbers.

I think the "problem" here is that some people, Jernej in this case, are frustrated because they don't want to climb with kneepads, yet the difficulty of their ascents are compared apples-to-apples with the one is using kneepads, which in some cases are not an apple-to-apples comparison and may not give the appropriate level of credit to some ascents. Jernej seems to suggest that the solution to this is to have some sort of standard of how a route should be climbed. I think this is not the best solution because this discussion would then go on forever on what this "standard" should be. He seems to suggest that the standard should be to do it the way it was FAd, which also comes with problems since kneepads are not the only equipment that has been and is continuously improving as well as the routes themselves changing due to polish, new beta, broken holds.

Therefore I think the best option is to just accept that it is very hard to make apple-to-apple comparisons of ascents and there is no such thing as a "true" grade of a route and that the best option may be to ask for transparency from climbers regarding how they ascended it in order to tell what type of apple it is (new beta, kneepads, specific shoes, fans, going left at fifth bolt, finding new hold, hold broke, supercharged physivantage collagen, etc.). I wish you a lovely new climbing year at the crags or the gyms."