Anorexia is good for climbing!!

You don't have to reach 63 kg for improvement, you should try hitting 70, and than see wether it's  worth it to go even lower...

1,75/75, my opinion?  you should get stronger, not lighter ;-)  you are an individuum, so don't chase a bmi-average.

@simon: I've been at 69 before. The difference was huge, i.e. I was able to climb 3 grades harder. But after that, there's only muscle left to lose. I wonder if anyone here has any experience with that. @Tothek: I understand what you say about BMI being too average to really be usefull. But see my reply to simon. And also, I am a naturally strong climber allready (for the level I climb at!), so in that department there is relatively little to gain for me. And, with more strength comes more weight :)

And Simon, I was just looking at your presentation... Looks like we should conduct a co-operative experiment ;D

@ Armand: I think you can continue to just climb and then you probably will reach 69 kg again. One alternative to climb harder grades at your 69 - 75 kg weight could be to focus on shorter routes and maybe try bouldering and also less steep routes. You seem to have a good insict...good luck :)

I am in for an experiment ;). I think you should try improving finger strength (you probably have enough bigger muscles already) and getting lighter. That's what I've been striving for.

well..  this is the deal with BW sport and spes. climbing.. i calculated that for every grade beyond average weight and grade the BMI drops one point as a mean, for every grade.. from like 22 to 17, and 7b to 9a (not the actual numbers)..  soo..  yes..  if you want to get really good you have to drop you weight..  simple as that..and 75 at your height is very heavy for climbing.. the question is if you want to look like a stick and climb hard, or look good (normal) and climb average. Fighting has had a some problems with this also, but..  i think climbing is worse, as there is no bottom limit as to when to stop..  lighter is (as a mean) always better..  I was bouldering about 7B+ at 61-62kg at 171..  this is perfect to the mean as to where i should be..  if i want to climb 8A i prob. should drop to about 58..  Now i`m about 67..  and i can prob. do like 7A(+) and also about the mean..   so yeah..  its a big deal..  but..  i have gotten to the point of not caring, and looking to why i started climbing in the first place.. just have fun and don't care..  and this is the mean..  there are climbers that perform at higher weight..  like Magnus, but still..  they are no way near your BMI:)  But if you want to be really good, BW is something you have to think about..   and John Dunne was on diets when he climbed hard..heh..  btw:) as ppl tend to give him as an example of bigger climbers climbing hard..  

80kg, 6'1". I think the hardest thing about being a bigger climber is strengthening your fingers without getting injured.

Thanks for your replies! @Jens: thanks for the advice, although it's not new for me ;) Allmost all my personal 'first of the grades', I have done on either short or vertical/not so steep routes. I've also noticed that I do have more 'talent' for bouldering than for climbing. But I just like the feeling of being tied in, engaging in the mental challenge of leading a route, and doing a lot of consecutive moves. So there you go, I'm a climber born in a boulderers body ;)  @Camilo & Scotty: Allright then, let's get this experiment going! I looked at your presentation, and it seems that we have the same 'problem' indeed ;) I think your strategy of weight loss and finger strength gains is THE way to go. And yeah.... without getting injured, that's the biggest challenge. Don't even get me started ;) @ Mr Monkey: at 72 kgs, I was able to do steady 7c indoors. I'm curious as to what I could do with a 'climbers weight'. And I totally see what you're trying to say about not caring about weight. I have thought a lot about WHY I climb. I started climbing because I love the moves, the friendship, the trips, the challenge. But also, and here's the other dillemma, I climb because I love the PROGRESS. I love the feeling of trying hard and training for a new grade or route, and succceeding. It gives me a sense of accomplishment. It works this way in many other areas of life. For me, the hunt for progress is a legitimate and not a 'wrong' reason to climb. And that's where the weight question comes in... Do I lose weight, progress and enjoy that progression? Or should I focus on the other reasons why I climb? Of course there are many other ways to progress, but for me personally it's a hard button to button :)

Ow and btw, as long as it's within reasonable and healthy limits, I don't really care how I look if weighing less makes me climb harder :)

I'm down with that co-op, i've been steady dropping weight for a while, but it goes up and down(on a downgoing spiral) as i don't have a plan. I just try to eat a little less, and be more active. I found that eating less helps my climbing, not just from dropping weight, but from putting less pressure on the digestive system, and i can feel lighter even before i loose any actual weight.  My shape has varied alot, and sometimes when i have felt the lightest and fittest, i have weighed myself above my average, so definatly alot of factors here. Now, i understand where you're coming from, and if you've been 69 before and seen the advantages that brings, i can understand you wanna go lower to see if it's even better. My point was just that once you pass a certain point, every kilo is gonna get harder to drop, so if you are unsure weather you want to hit that 63 mark or not, than you don't have to decide right now, if you start feeling like crap at 65, and it's unbeneficial for everything except for the climbing, than you can stop. It's not a one-way street so to say. But it's certainly an interesting experiment, to see what happens if you reach the average BMI of top climbers. Especially interesting if you don't improve on other levels, to test the benefits of mere weightloss, so i say go for it! I'm currently at 78, and my goal for the summer is 72...And now it's on the internet so i guess i have to do it....

the human body is smart..just keep climbing and with time, it will adjust itself.. No matter whats your weight, you will want to improve always..so if you reach the 63kgs and climb 8c, then you will want 8c+..9a, etc..so this is a neverending story.. I think the best is forget about it and climb as much as you can. You will progress for sure. ;) good luck

@olmin: you are right, the human body has an amazing capacity to adjust itself. And as I said, there are many ways to improve, and they are all well worth persuing. I am convinced that if I keep climbing and keep my motivation up, I will progress automatically. But losing weight, in my opinion, seems like the easiest way to climb harder. That's why I find it an interesting option. And indeed, it's a never ending story. Exactly that never ending option for progress is one of the things I love about climbing :) But of course losing weight beyond what's healthy or feels good I would NEVER consider. So after climbing my first 8c I will have to start working on my technique, haha! ;) @Simon: Cool! Let's get this thing started :D I totally agree with what you say; if I start feeling like crap, it's not worth it. I mean, it's just climbing, right? :) My health is my first priority in life, and I would never jeopardise it for whatever reason. But if I feel good and healthy at 69 I will continue, same goes for when I'm at 65. If I ever get there haha ;) It's a nice experiment, and it would be nice if we could get more 'heavy' climbers to join. Let's keep in touch.

Just one generic thought: the fact that low BMI and high climbing performance do correlate for the climbing population (as the data seem to suggest) does NOT imply that for you as an individual, lowering your body weight (and thus BMI) does increase your personal climbing performance. It just says that people with skinny build seem to have an edge when it comes to climbing very hard routes.

@md: you're absolutely right, it's only a correlation. But neither does the opposite follow from the data, of course. That's why this is a nice experiment :) And, as I said in an earlier comment, my personal experience also suggests that it might work for me as an individual. 6 kilo's lighter, I was able to climb 3 grades harder (the difference between 7a+ now and 7c then). That's certainly not 'hard evidence' because there are always a lot of contributing others factors, but in my opinion it's suggestive enough to experiment with.

@ md: Your point i very valid, but if you look at the more "heavy-built" climbers that do hard routes(Sharma, midtboe), i'm pretty sure their close to 0% body fat, and comperatively thin legs are contributing factors in their climbing...

@ armand Is it really your weight that pulls you down? Maybe it is better to focus on other things. I always thought it is the key for me to climb harder is to loose some weight. I tried to loose some fat and got sick and weaker.. The problem wasn't the fat ;) I'm now 93 kgs and ~192cm. "Pretty" high BMI, but I know that theBMI is alie for peolpe who do sports. Doing some antagonist training, trying to keep in shape(running), focusing on different climbs (technical, steep, roof....) to learn more movements (I'm still a pretty clumpsy climber) , mainly just bouldering for getting stronger. If you think your fingers are weak, then you have to traing really carefully (expamle: static campusing or deadhangs. Take your time.) Don't compare yourself to those machines out there.

If I may cite Dave MacLeod's "9 out of 10..": "A significant proportion of world class climbers maintain exceptionally low body fat percentages for large parts of the year (but rarely indefinitely). For males this might be around 4% and for females 10-12%. Most climbers would really struggle to maintain this without running into health problems related to nutrition without professional supervision. 8-10% for males and 22% for females is a more realistic ideal fat percentage. 3% body fat in males and 12% in females is essential for normal physiological function of the body." Page 68. (Dave writes a bit more about weight in his book, I think he wanted to publish a whole book about that but I'm not sure if it's finished yet.) I suggest keeping track of your body fat percentage if you want to lose weight, read some books about the topic and once you hit a critical percentage get professional help. Dave also suggest the book Racing Weight: http://racingweight.com/ Note that women may have menstrual dysfunctions when going below 17% body fat.

@Martin: haha funny to find you here :) It's always great to focus on those things you mention. In that department, I have a lot to gain. Weighing less without becoming a more skilled climber is pretty useless I think, because then you don't have the means to turn your weight loss into a true advantage. But again, I used to be 6 kilos lighter and I felt fine. Still at 8%-9% fat. Didn't get sick or anything, I even felt better. I think that many people that lose weight get sick not because their fat% is to low, but because they are missing energy and nutrients since they are IN THE PROCESS of losing weight. Your immune system needs energy, and when there's not enough of it, you can get sick. So I'm taking it slow; losing weight responsibly and at a considerably low pace (about a half a kilo per week). So my idea is to do both and see what happens :) See you in the gym! @Christian: Thanks. I have already done a lot of research, and I'm familiar with Dave's work :) I estimate that I am at 15% bodyfat now, so that's in my case 8 kilos I can easily lose. The one thing missing in his work though is my central question, which remains unanswered: could the benefits of weighing less perhaps outweigh the costs of losing upper body muscle? I'm going to find out :)

and @Martin: It's not just the world class 9a climbing "machines" I'm looking at. All the people that I know personally that climb around 8a or harder have a very low BMI. It's just simply what you see when you look around you, in general. You yourself are a very, very exceptional case in my opinion ;)