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2009-10-16 00:00:00 |
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Based on some 1 200 votes, the 8a community has said that they are not in favour of slash grades. Only 14 % say that they actually suggest them.
No - Grades are not so accurate = 39 %
No - Grades are not so important = 20 %
Yes - I accept them = 27 %
Yes - I suggest them = 14 %
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2009-10-16 12:50:55 |
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so, for the people who care about grades, the majority is in favour of slash-grades.
that means we should use them, as the rest doesn't care either way!
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2009-10-16 13:13:58 |
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Of course, you can suggest slash grades to friends or if you make a topo if you think grades are that important and accurate.
However, at 8a we do not report slash grades as we do not think grades are that important or accurate and by this poll, it has been confirmed that this opinion is shared with a majority of the climbers that have voted.
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2009-10-16 15:18:14 |
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you're so full of it.
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2009-10-16 19:16:51 |
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By the majority of climber who voted, do you mean that awesome <0.1% of the total climbing community that voted?
Ok, sarcasm over, honest opinion:
Even though I voted, none of the option came even close to my opinion. Given the comments in the poll's thread, I'm not alone in this. Next time please used unbiased wording (maybe have a few people review it first) and wait until there are 3000-5000 votes. Thanks.
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2009-10-16 20:15:15 |
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I find it extremely difficult to believe that 8a and the other 20% of voters don't care about grades and find them unimportant. Where by definition this site is named after a freaking grade! Honestly stop fooling yourselves and realize that your only on this site for one of two reasons (or both):
1) To see where we all rank among the climbing community (some may want to see where we ranked amongst ourselves compared to previous yrs).
2) Because we love the drama and conflict that Jens inspires, no offense Jens, but it's the nature of the 8a beast.
Most of us find the news interesting since we're climbers, but unfortunately lower grades are not newsworthy (on this site at least). Doesn't matter how rad, or beautiful the route is it doesn't make it to the news unless it's a 30-ft scary, bone breaking V6. The minimal news is so & so flashed a 7c+.
My other 2 cents on the subject is slash grades are lame especially in the YDS. For example: 5.13 to 5.14. You taking a number difference of 1 dividing that number into a 1/4th (5.13a,b,c,d) and then trying to break that number down even further into an 1/8th (Ex: 5.13a/b) by using a slash grade.
Flame on.
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2009-10-16 20:23:58 |
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No flame, at least not from me. Just the statement that the jump in grade for YDS from 5.8 to 5.9 is suppose to be the same relative jump in difficulty from 5.11a to 5.11b. In short, letter grades in the upper part of the YDS scale are full grade jumps, so say 5.8/9 and 5.11a/b are equivalent.
Why they did this? I have no idea.
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2009-10-17 11:50:29 |
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Its frankly out right a pathetic way of publishing this "news" made out of a poll that is rigged. When making polls like this one its like chipping or doing Everest with O2. Its out right cheating the truth.
The "brave and humble" way would have been to make the poll more neutral but hey then 8a might not get the answer it want to broadcast.
But then again why bother doing a poll that is so obviously rigged to deliver the result 8a wants. 8a is only fooling itself. There is no valid statistical conclusion to be made out of this BS poll.
In the Mc Clure "drama" the journalistic ethics debate was smoking hot and 8a claimed high standards but to be honest 8a has a HUGE up hill struggle with regards to poll and journalistic credibility. Don't fuel the fire with more nonsense.
Then the BS about grades not being so important. And here is some valid statistics from the front page as of 11.30 Geneva time. Out of 30 published news articles on the global front page ONLY 5 is stories not related to GRADE NEWS.
Just be honest about the grade obsession. The score card Is a funky feature that is a good motivational tool.
So what to do in order to improve?
Well use the community. I'm sure you can have a kind of advisory/editorial board with real journalist in and some one with a background in statistics. Try to widen the circle of people you get imput from and think twice before publish.
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2009-10-17 12:09:32 |
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I do fully agree with the suggestions of David. It would make 8a.nu a better site.
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2009-10-17 14:40:38 |
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it'll never happen. controversy = pagehits. integrity was murdered and ass-raped a long time ago here. it's funny how clearly-worded, direct questions are never answered here. especially when he's wrong.
funny, that.
oh, and did I mention that at one time in the not so very distant past, there was actually some sort of interaction possible? of course, once the contributors to that system turned out to have other opinions, they were quickly denied their editorial priviliges.
crazy? no.
completely batshit insane? certainly.
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2009-10-17 16:10:54 |
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Everyone who is interested to contribute to the 8a community is welcome to do so. We have some 80 members with editorial rights.
Regarding the statistics, it is actually not the total visits that are increasing the most but the unique visitors. As this has been the case for 10 straight years, I guess we must do something right.
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2009-10-17 17:24:36 |
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a comment and a question.
comment: like people who slow down to watch a car-wreck.
<EDIT>and more constructive, a related question: does this mean that more different people are coming, but that the repeat visits are on the decline?</EDIT>
question: why were my editorial rights revoked?
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2009-10-17 18:05:06 |
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@ Jens
With statistics I was referring to polls that are rigged to give a certain answer that fit with the values of 8a. In Swedish " som man ropar far man svar". I do not question the user numbers. How ever o have to ask if its quantity or quality users one is looking for. When investment banks are valuing internet businesses they don't focus on number of user. They look at time spent by each unique user.
With regards to your 80 contributors you should look in to the possibility of having a few of them as editorial advisers, who you can send lets say SMS to when ever you think there is an editorial issue that needs a second opinion.
I think you have to less defensive about what you do and how you do things. I understand that you are defensive given the number off posts that only give you crap and no feed back. How ever the "teflon" style of answers is not helping the course of 8a.
Its hard to run a business and make clients happy. Its even harder to run a community like this where every user is opinionated. Listen and calibrate your messages will help you get your point across much more effective. Loud is not always the best way of shouting.
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2009-10-17 19:09:10 |
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One possibility why you are the only contributing member that has ever been revoked is possibly that you often do not discuss, instead you are calling me names etc.
I will update your membership again once you start discussing subjects instead of just calling me names etc. In any company, they would have done the same.
At the top of this you just wrote me a message, "you're so full of it." This is not acceptable if we are going to co-operate. You can of course have different opinions but you have to be able to discuss it in a civilised manner.
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2009-10-17 19:29:56 |
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Another view:
Many folks use slash grades to reduce grading accuracy. The slash grade means the route is somewhere in the full range of either grade, not precisly in middle. This means that a 5.12c/d route could be anywhere in the 5.12c or 5.12d range. This method has value from my view. To use slash grades to indicate the route is precisly between the main grades is not useful to me because I don't think ratings can be that accurate.
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2009-10-17 22:43:18 |
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Accuracy is in the way of the world, in all sports, all games and all companys... no ?
Why this web site, based on the world climbing ranking want to be out of accuracy ?
Why this web site, based on world records could be out of accuracy ?
When some news talk about the new record of computers linked to 8a in a week, is it because of "opinions" or from accuracy stat ??
There are too many contradictions here...
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2009-10-17 22:59:14 |
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Slash grades are great for the first ascent as you often dont really know the real grade you just have a feeling.
This site is awesome but Jens it would be even better if you would quit interjecting your opinions on every topic.Not that you dont have some great points .Just let the members debate and kick back and enjoy .
hope you are making some money .
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2009-10-18 06:06:48 |
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ok, let's just recap. the name-calling (which is IMO on par with any forum/community) is brought on by your refusal to discuss, or answer questions. instead you repeat your original statement without using valid arguments; or you just go off on some tangent which is absolutely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
here, you quote my response to a comment you made, which was not at all relevant to the discussion, and thereby insulting to me, who has put thought into the matter as well. I could go into the numerous other examples, but won't.
if you feel that I have crossed a line, then I apologize (sincerely), but you have to realize that you are calling the kettle black on the 'civilized discussing'.. even on the 'discussing' you mostly miss out.
and I'm not interested in cooperating in the way it is done now (I have detailed my reasons elsewhere). so thanks, but no thanks.
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2009-10-24 22:22:07 |
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Jens, you know what ?
You have decided to use french grades,
so you need to use what the french's uses to grade routes in order to be more accurate...
no ?
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2009-10-25 09:14:25 |
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@ Mö: Could you please explain for me why you almost never see slash grades in Fontainebleau?
Could you please explain for me why you think slash grades for routes are good?
Why do you think that the rest of the world do not use slash grades?
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